GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard' • Hacker News Board

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#111

Post by Zikes » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 5:12 AM UTC

mbillie1 wrote: post #93

CoryG89 wrote: post #40

For people who don't see what's wrong here. The issue is not about whether the word 'retard' is or is not offensive to anyone. You need to consider that GitHub currently hosts a large percentage of the web's open source repositories. This is censorship plain and simple, something that IMO has no place in open source. The issue is that there are plenty of things some people might find offensive on GitHub but you dont…

A private company choosing not to allow content for whatever reason is not censorship . People who choose to use the word "retard" are not a protected class, Github can ban this word as they see fit.

Well, in the literal sense it is censorship, being the suppression of materials deemed objectionable on moral, political, military, or other grounds. A bit like a (likely American) TV censor might "bleep" a word they don't want to expose people's delicate sensibilities to.

I mean, that doesn't make it "evil", but a lot of people might say that censorship of any sort is a bit of a grey area. That whole "I disagree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it" thing.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#112

Post by nightmiles » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 5:13 AM UTC

aerovistae wrote: post #67

nightmiles wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it be alright, then, if it said, "WebM for Black People?" It isn't important to quibble over what words we consider offensive in the past, present, or future. The real problem is speaking about a classification of human being as being less than fully human or using those classifications as shortcuts for "inferior." A person with darker skin is no less human than one with lighter skin. Similarly, two people with…

Normally, I don't argue with people on the internet. Tonight, I'm bored and I'm making an exception. That being said, this isn't an argument about how we should treat people. This is an argument over whether we should be allowed to say what we wish and let others react how they will. If people don't want to use this individual's code because of his questionable mentality, let that be their choice. Instead we're now p…

While I did not speak to censorship, nor did you in the comment I replied to, I do agree that blanket censorship is not good for anyone. That does not mean that casual discriminatory speech shouldn't be considered foul in general.

Insert bit here about it not being illegal or immoral to police discriminatory speech on a private service.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#113

Post by PopeOfNope » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 5:13 AM UTC

ectoplasm wrote: post #92

CoryG89 wrote: post #40

For people who don't see what's wrong here. The issue is not about whether the word 'retard' is or is not offensive to anyone. You need to consider that GitHub currently hosts a large percentage of the web's open source repositories. This is censorship plain and simple, something that IMO has no place in open source. The issue is that there are plenty of things some people might find offensive on GitHub but you dont…

> It is the selective censorship of certain reasonable uses of free speech that is concerning here. Free speech laws don't apply to corporate or private censorship. > Who decides what is and is not appropriate? The owners of the property. Can I come over to your place and say offensive things?

Free speech laws don't apply to corporate or private censorship.

Nobody's suggesting we sue or otherwise bring criminal charges against Github. Your response is a non-sequitur at best.

The owners of the property. Can I come over to your place and say offensive things?

Legally? Yes, you can.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#114

Post by kazinator » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 5:13 AM UTC

Retra wrote: post #104

kazinator wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it is the context! "retard" is a short form of "mentally retarded". Which means slowed down developmentally. The spark plug gaps being a little too wide in the old noggin to fire reliably. This is not like a completely separate context like "fag" (cigarette) versus "fag" (homosexual). The long form "mentally retarded" isn't offensive, yet "mental retard" is so offensive that it violates terms of service and gets…

>The long form "mentally retarded" isn't offensive I beg to differ. There's a reason the medical community doesn't use that term anymore.

Quac^H^H^H^HMedical professionals also don't use "stomach" to denote the abdomen. So what?

> any more

I.e. they did! Lay people still do.

Anyway, what matters here is not the standard used by the medical community. I suspect that if a github project had some code that "assists the mentally retarded", it would not bring on the TOS violation police.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#115

Post by lfowles » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 5:13 AM UTC

rtpg wrote: post #25

mdekkers wrote: post #19

Yeah, when you host all your code with a 3rd party, and you run all your services with a 3rd party, and you depend on another 3rd party for significant chunks of your functionality, you will find that starting up is a lot easier, as long as you don't mind giving up a very significant chunk of your independence and freedom to do as you wish. I don't understand the obsession with github, google, amazon and the like. We…

Are you serious? Maintaining things is hard. Even for relatively simple stuff, things fall over all the time and suddenly your job is "make sure your mail server is up" instead of "accomplish your core business task". I don't have that sort of free time anymore.

Case in point: Ran update && upgrade on my server that runs a mailinabox container. Whoops, something broke and now the container doesn't recognize any of the owners or groups. Your family mail server is down while your wife is waiting on replies to job applications. Thankfully, it was fixed within a day, but I've had stressful weeks where I've considered just moving to fastmail instead of spending my limited time at home pounding on config files.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#116

Post by thedz » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 5:14 AM UTC

CoryG89 wrote: post #40

For people who don't see what's wrong here. The issue is not about whether the word 'retard' is or is not offensive to anyone. You need to consider that GitHub currently hosts a large percentage of the web's open source repositories. This is censorship plain and simple, something that IMO has no place in open source. The issue is that there are plenty of things some people might find offensive on GitHub but you dont…

1. This isn't censorship of the type that is illegal or not allowed. It is a private company deciding a word was inappropriate.

2. It seems like most in this comment thread agree that this action, as a singular act, is a good thing. The word was offensive. Github asked the repo to change it. They did. The end.

3. As for the larger context, the problem with the frequent use of slippery slope arguments and cries of "censorship" is that people are choosing to die on some pretty ridiculous hills.

4. If or when Github actually does something truly abusive of their power to censor, then I'll worry.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#117

Post by aerovistae » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 5:14 AM UTC

Retra wrote: post #99

aerovistae wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normally, I don't argue with people on the internet. Tonight, I'm bored and I'm making an exception. That being said, this isn't an argument about how we should treat people. This is an argument over whether we should be allowed to say what we wish and let others react how they will. If people don't want to use this individual's code because of his questionable mentality, let that be their choice. Instead we're now p…

GitHub is not the center of the world. They are not establishing law. You can publish Mein Kampf if everyone else decides not to. You can edit the bible if you wish. Or you can try to foster the development of a professional community by taking steps to prohibit needlessly offensive language. You can publish whatever you like on your personal website and link to it from anywhere. I don't see how this is an over-reach…

It's not, and this isn't a big deal. I agree. But I'm bored and I hate seeing people censored over little things, drops in an ocean, so I'm sharing my opinion, which is that this doesn't accomplish anything useful in any way.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#118

Post by scarlson » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 5:14 AM UTC

Randgalt wrote: post #46

github is within their rights to do this but it's horrendous that they are doing it. The corpus of offensive speech (or code in this case) is getting out of hand. The code is clearly humor. Not everyone appreciates the same humor but humor is _meant_ to be offensive. So, the policy will proceed to be no humor in code that isn't bland. But, then, all of silicon valley is moving toward this. A github founder got into a…

The Christian parable only applies if the puritans are in the minority. Judging by the comments in this HN thread alone, more people are in favor of whitewashing language than against.

I, for one, do not look forward to an internet where the only allowable form of humor is some combination of popsicle stick jokes and regurgitated memes.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#119

Post by ve55 » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 5:14 AM UTC

CoryG89 wrote: post #40

For people who don't see what's wrong here. The issue is not about whether the word 'retard' is or is not offensive to anyone. You need to consider that GitHub currently hosts a large percentage of the web's open source repositories. This is censorship plain and simple, something that IMO has no place in open source. The issue is that there are plenty of things some people might find offensive on GitHub but you dont…

Of course I think Github should have the right to do this, but I don't think they should do this in cases as silly as this one.

The free market doesn't always work here. Especially when it comes to the Internet. In this instance, sure they can host it anywhere they want and then not encounter problems, but that often doesn't work in other scenarios.

When some sites try to fork in that manner, due to censorship on the original, the forked site can end up with DDoS attacks, having their domains revoked, payment accounts frozen, hosting revoked, and so on, because groups will harass companies support, demanding that they stop supporting for whatever reason, and almost all companies cave when this happens. Suddenly, forking isn't so easy.

I strongly suggest anyone who thinks this is a good thing to read this post (which this comment is similar to): http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/07/22/freedom-on-the-centrali...

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#120

Post by echlebek » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 5:14 AM UTC

spdustin wrote: post #54

aerovistae wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't say I am. People should be free to use the language they wish. The words that were offensive 200 years ago are laughable today. It's just such a superficial thing, almost arbitrarily deciding which words are 'sensitive' and which ones aren't, I cannot stand behind efforts to censor the world. Once upon a time 'idiot' was the more common word for the mentally disabled. Has GitHub banned 'idiot,' too? Good long w…

Yes, the developer had every right to say retard. 100% correct. And if they said it in front of me, I'd have every right to kick them, hard. Both of us will have paid a price, sure, but hey, freedom of speech wasn't violated. You're free to call me a retard. I'm free to kick you for doing it. Everybody wins. But your calling me a retard isn't a divinely bestowed right to get away with it without a response just becau…

You're not free to kick someone that calls you a retard. That is assault, which is a crime in most places on earth. I thought every adult would know that, but here we are.

Sticks and stones.