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As Tech Booms, Workers Turn to Coding for Career Change

nytimes.com

51–60 of 141 posts

Re: As Tech Booms, Workers Turn to Coding for Career Change

#51
I don't remember a time since the first boom that workers weren't interested in the fast easy money image of programming and startups. Combine that with the bootstrap programming education companies selling ITT Tech style train and earn big bucks package I bet business is booming.

The math grad was a silly story. Before I started working I made 0 dollars, now that I am working I make money! When I was in a grocery store I made minimum wage, when I got a job with more responsibility I made a lot more money! Of course there is a part of me a bit sore, my first coding job was $27k for full-time.

Also, this is a very long ad for Galvanize isn't it?

Re: As Tech Booms, Workers Turn to Coding for Career Change

#53
post #22

We made a conscious decision to try and hire someone from these camps as an experiment. I went to their demo day and winnowed the graduating class of 40 down to 6. Of the 6 we interviewed we decided to give 6 month internships to 3 of them, 2 developer and 1 qa. Despite being hourly with minimal benefits, they were making the yearly equivalent of 50k a year which I found more than reasonable given the fact they had n…

[deleted]

Re: As Tech Booms, Workers Turn to Coding for Career Change

#54
The lede anecdote talks about a 26-year-old math major who went from $20,000/yr as a writer to $100,000/yr as a data scientist, after a bootcamp. Ignoring the "but what is data science" debate for now...this to me seems totally reasonable. He's a math major. Programming is founded upon math...and at the very least, requires the same kind of mathematical deduction and ability to not be freaked out by symbolic representations of values.

Now, if it were a pure writer (i.e. literature/English major)...I would not expect that person to make the necessary growth in the short span of a bootcamp. Three months may be enough to cover syntax and some base engineering concepts...but it's definitely not enough to become a rigorous mathematical thinker.

Re: As Tech Booms, Workers Turn to Coding for Career Change

#55
post #11

Here is some salary data for the two metro areas mentioned in the story for "Software Developers, Applications" from the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported for May 2014 [1]. Denver-Aurora-Broomfield, CO 10%ile 25%ile median 75%ile 90%ile 64470 80110 100140 122350 146930 New York-White Plains-Wayne, NY-NJ Metropolitan Division 10%ile 25%ile median 75%ile 90%ile 66100 83010 106710 135600 164390 The woman hired by Galv…

I find it extremely believable that someone with ambition and drive could do better than many developers who are coasting off a CS degree.

This and tech stacks change so often that someone with 3-6 months of javascript exp could be more effective than 2-5 years with java.

Re: As Tech Booms, Workers Turn to Coding for Career Change

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What area are you in? 75k in NY or SF for an inexperienced developer seems high.

Just sharing my experience here: I've been hiring in SF and found some boot camp grads, usually stronger but still far from mid-career, with expectations around 90-115k. Most of these folks got hired (some of them to us/away from us with offers all in that range). These were folks who were months to years away from hitting the ground running, and the value of the offer was entirely on their future potential. I found…

Just curious, how do you define "hitting the ground running"

Re: As Tech Booms, Workers Turn to Coding for Career Change

#57
post #18

Somehow I have a hard time believing that if you have a math major, the only difference between you waiting tables and living on the brink of poverty or making bank as a software engineer is a 3 months Ruby course (I have a double math/CS major); I feel like there may be something more going on here. I'm happy for the gentleman's success, but it seems like a poor example to use in any case.

Shouldn't a math degree already have at least a little programming? Matlab? Python? Something?

Probably some mathlab, but it really depends on the course/ university.

For example in Europe many courses focus on pure theory.

Re: As Tech Booms, Workers Turn to Coding for Career Change

#58
post #22

We made a conscious decision to try and hire someone from these camps as an experiment. I went to their demo day and winnowed the graduating class of 40 down to 6. Of the 6 we interviewed we decided to give 6 month internships to 3 of them, 2 developer and 1 qa. Despite being hourly with minimal benefits, they were making the yearly equivalent of 50k a year which I found more than reasonable given the fact they had n…

Another personal anecdote here- I'm self taught so maybe I'm biased. I worked on a side project years ago with a guy who was a proud Stanford alum. He did some kind of data sciencey stuff for his day job, but his ui code in this project was simply horrible. Like 2000 loc jquery spaghetti in a single file.

I've also worked with a team of recent bootcamp grads who were highly paid and wrote great ui code quickly. They wouldn't necessarily be up on all the newest tech, but if you told them to use something, they would go home, learn it, and implement it pretty well the next day.

Could the bootcamp ui coders do the Stanford guy's data science? Not a chance. But I know who's ui I would want to maintain.

Does this mean that all Stanford grads are writing spaghetti coasting off an Ivy League degree? Does it mean that all bootcamp grads are technically naive craftsmen? No. Assess coders on their code.

Re: As Tech Booms, Workers Turn to Coding for Career Change

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What area are you in? 75k in NY or SF for an inexperienced developer seems high.

Just sharing my experience here: I've been hiring in SF and found some boot camp grads, usually stronger but still far from mid-career, with expectations around 90-115k. Most of these folks got hired (some of them to us/away from us with offers all in that range). These were folks who were months to years away from hitting the ground running, and the value of the offer was entirely on their future potential. I found…

> I've been hiring in SF and found some boot camp grads, usually stronger but still far from mid-career, with expectations around 90-115k. Most of these folks got hired (some of them to us/away from us with offers all in that range).

When the current cycle ends, the funding dries up and companies start running out of money, more folks will recognize this as the insanity it is.

Re: As Tech Booms, Workers Turn to Coding for Career Change

#60

Once everyone is a programmer, then what?

Once everyone can read and write, then what? We live in a computer age. Knowing how to program is no longer a "specialized skill", it's mandatory (on some level) to effectively interact with ever more complex systems that run our lives.

Right, but there is a difference between everyone needing to learn to read and write in order to communicate by written word, sign documents etc. and everyone needing to learn to write sufficiently good to write a novel. As I see it, it's the same with computers and coding. Everyone should be able to operate a computer (or smartphone, tablet, whatever) and do tasks efficiently on it, but not everyone should be required to learn the intricacies of their computer in order to program it. Some people aren't interested in that, and that's completely fine, just as some people aren't interested in learning to write a novel.

I personally don't agree with the sentiment that 'coding is the new literacy'. Yes, it's the digital age and all that, and coding can help you solve some specific problems, but for 99% of the problems that 99% non-programmers encounter, someone has already written a piece of software that will solve it way better than they could have done themselves. When people learned how to read and write, they were suddenly able to communicate by letters, take notes, read books, etc., and a whole new world opened for them. As for computers, well, that new world opened when people learned how to operate a computer and use it for various tasks, not when they learned to code. I see a much narrower use out of coding literacy for the average person who doesn't care much about programming or computers in general.

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