Stop pushing the web forward

Post by wvenable » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 4:48 PM UTC

kuschku wrote: post #101

apalmer wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get where your coming from, and agree with a lot of what you say. BUT, Fundamentally... >The web as an application delivery medium is a failed experiment, patched up on all sides and held together with 40MB of polyfills on every page. Is just not a true statement. Or rather, the web sucks, but it is the only cross platform UI experiment that has 'worked' on any significant level.

Well, Java has succeeded, too. Look at Minecraft.

Post by pbhjpbhj » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 4:52 PM UTC

bjt wrote: post #47

rgbrenner wrote: post #21

We need a break. We need an opportunity to learn to the features we already have responsibly — without tools! Also, we need the time for a fundamental conversation about where we want to push the web forward to. How about this.. YOU take a break. Stop trying to keep up with every little new thing that comes out. Wait a while. And you'll get exactly what you want. The tools that it turns out were a bad idea will die.…

This is the part that feels the most misguided to me: > a fundamental conversation about where we want to push the web forward to. There's no such thing as a "conversation" between the billions of people with a stake in this. Or even the few million people building websites and web apps. Or even the few thousand people building web browsers. Attempting to have that conversation just means open-ended delay. There will…

Post by aquilaFiera » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 4:59 PM UTC

cwyers wrote: post #104

I think this is the key: > The moratorium would hit Chrome much harder than it would the other browsers, since it’s Google that is proposing most of the new features nowadays. That may not be entirely fair, but it’s an unavoidable consequence of Chrome’s current position as the top browser — not only in market share, but also in supported features. Also, the fact that Google’s documentation ranges from lousy to non-e…

Post by jscottmiller » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 5:00 PM UTC

adrusi wrote: post #111

jscottmiller wrote: post #102

> Instead, we should focus on the web’s strengths: simplicity, URLs and reach. How does new browser feature X prevent a developer from doing any of these things? > Being forced to work around IE6’s issues required quite a bit of creativity, and although not every solution stood the test of time (most libraries and frameworks from that era, for instance), it still made the creative juices flow. 'Tools' are bad except…

Both of your points are right, but I'd like to point out that regarding: How does new browser feature X prevent a developer from doing any of these things? A moratorium on new features probably wouldn't help, but the reality is that web developers are focusing on new shiny browser features that allow for deeper native integration, rather than on the core elements of the web that work and carry greater usability gains…

Post by Lawtonfogle » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 5:03 PM UTC

tedunangst wrote: post #109

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know PPK and his work? He's been at the cutting edge of web-standards and implementations for at least 12 years if my memory serves me correctly. >And you'll get exactly what you want. // If he wants to avoid the web being badly negatively effected by short term views of current browser companies and standards bodies then he won't get what he wants by sticking his head in the sand and ignoring the direction he…

> I find it funny that web pages are trying to be native apps and many mobile apps are shipping when they're ostensibly just web pages. Which provides some insight into what's missing from the web. It's almost good enough for most companies. They just need a little something extra so that they can "own the experience." But soon the browsers will catch up and then websites will be able to own your experience, too.