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Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown

nytimes.com

31–40 of 105 posts

Re: Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown

#31

I don't believe that raising the minimum wage will trigger businesses to cut jobs significantly. They will probably pass the higher cost onto the consumer. Ultimately, it's a method of wealth redistribution, which is sorely needed in our economy.

Then why not raise it to $100/h, so everyone can live a comfortable life?

Re: Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown

#32

I think the minimum wage is a helpful tool or has been historically. But as others have said when you raise the minimum wage, prices increase, and by far the largest groups that consume the same goods/services are also relatively poor themselves (so essentially you increase pay but also costs to the poorest in society). More as a thought experiment than anything: What would happen if, instead of increasing the minimu…

Serious question (not flippant): what good does that do? Wal-Mart's CEO makes $35m (I think). They employ 2.1m people. He makes $16.66 per person that he manages (indirectly, of course), per year. His salary is a drop in the bucket of what it costs to employ their workforce for a year. Comparing salaries doesn't showcase anything.

How many of these high-paying CEO jobs are there? Not many! The same is true of sports--there are only so many jobs to go around, and if you're one of the rare people who can do the job, you get paid a LOT of money. Comparing salaries of highest and lowest paid people doesn't really seem useful in any way.

Re: Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown

#33
post #29

I think the minimum wage is a helpful tool or has been historically. But as others have said when you raise the minimum wage, prices increase, and by far the largest groups that consume the same goods/services are also relatively poor themselves (so essentially you increase pay but also costs to the poorest in society). More as a thought experiment than anything: What would happen if, instead of increasing the minimu…

"when you raise the minimum wage, prices increase" You state that as if it's a fact when it is not. Prices may increase for some goods/services. But many goods/services prices are not set by the costs involved but by what the market will bear. The other option is that profit margins will narrow. Or, as is more typical, a combination of both.

"by what the market will bear. The other option is that profit margins will narrow"

You say this back-to-back, but seem to completely ignore the fact that the market can bear a higher cost once the minimum wage is raised. Sure, $15/hr won't affect the price of Porsches or Lexuses, but the lower-priced goods that someone making minimum wage is buying will likely be affected.

Re: Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your contention that there's no difference in raising wages in small countries with largely centralized populations vs. a country of 320M with massive regional differences? Sweden and New York City are roughly the same size. California is quite a bit larger than Australia, so we will soon see how these experiments compare in real life.

The size of the country does not matter for microeconomic effects.

Changing a wage for a country, as the post said, is probably a bit more macro- than micro-

Re: Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown

#35

I think the minimum wage is a helpful tool or has been historically. But as others have said when you raise the minimum wage, prices increase, and by far the largest groups that consume the same goods/services are also relatively poor themselves (so essentially you increase pay but also costs to the poorest in society). More as a thought experiment than anything: What would happen if, instead of increasing the minimu…

Serious question (not flippant): what good does that do? Wal-Mart's CEO makes $35m (I think). They employ 2.1m people. He makes $16.66 per person that he manages (indirectly, of course), per year. His salary is a drop in the bucket of what it costs to employ their workforce for a year. Comparing salaries doesn't showcase anything. How many of these high-paying CEO jobs are there? Not many! The same is true of sports-…

Very few companies have such a large, relatively unproductive workforce as Walmart. You've chosen one of the biggest divisors there is for that calculation.

(I'm not thinking of a good way to phrase the relatively unproductive, but the point is that Walmart doesn't pay their workers a lot)

Re: Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown

#36
> Their evidence rests largely on comparisons between neighboring areas with different minimum wages. The seminal study in this vein examined fast-food restaurants on both sides of the Pennsylvania-New Jersey border before and after New Jersey raised its minimum wage in the early 1990s. It found no evidence that employment there fell as a result.

This is often cited in publications that generally support a higher minimum wage. It is unfortunate that this is never challenged as there are studies that show that an increase in minimum wage does in fact result in lower employment:

> Raising the minimum wage would increase family income for many low-wage workers, moving some of them out of poverty. But some jobs for low-wage workers would probably be eliminated and the income of those workers would fall substantially. [0]

Logic itself would suggest that an increase in minimum wage would result in at least some unemployment:

No employer would hire you if you make them less than the amount that they have to pay you. There are people that make more than the old minimum wage and less than the new proposed minimum wage. Therefore, those employment opportunities will no longer exist. It may not happen overnight as there is some momentum, but you can't deny this effect. Also, you can't exactly measure the people that would have been hired with a lower minimum wage.

The other interesting this is how vernacular plays such a strong role in people's opinions. Imagine if "minimum wage" was replaced with "prohibition of employees whose contributions to employers is less than the mandated minimum amount of finding legal employment"

[0] https://www.cbo.gov/publication/44995

Re: Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Make more than a million dollars a year? 95% marginal tax rate." Great. Then what? Everyone currently making over $1m a year will cut their salary to $1m. Then you gotta start taxing the upper middle class -- what rate do you want to tax people making over $500k? $250k? $100k? Those are the ones that will pay for this program. As much as you want to tax "the wealthy", there really aren't enough wealthy people to pay…

> Great. Then what? Everyone currently making over $1m a year will cut their salary to $1m. Do wealthy individuals in other countries with a heavier tax burden (Europe, Scandinavia to be specific) do this? Would be nice to see evidence of this behavior before outright dismissing raising taxes.

If the tax rate is 95%, a company would have to pay someone a $21 million dollar salary to pay that person $2m. I suspect that no company would do such a thing, as it's just throwing money away.

Re: Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown

#38
post #13

This is absurd. The results of raising the minimum wage are perfectly known. Learn from the other countries that have done it in the last 10-15-25 years. Australia, Scandinavian countries, etc. etc. Why can't America look outside it's own borders and learn from what other countries have done and are doing? i.e. watch this John Oliver video on gun control [1] where it's stated Australia is not on this planet and Ameri…

Did you read the article? You can't compare the effect of economic change in two vastly different countries like that. As the article stated, even within the United States, within the state of New York, the policy would have vastly different effects between cities such as New York City and Buffalo.

Re: Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your contention that there's no difference in raising wages in small countries with largely centralized populations vs. a country of 320M with massive regional differences? Sweden and New York City are roughly the same size. California is quite a bit larger than Australia, so we will soon see how these experiments compare in real life.

The size of the country does not matter for microeconomic effects.

Factor in culture. People of Scandinavian descent do even better financially in the US than they do in their home countries. Even if true in a textbook sense, I'd bet the sense of social cohesion that comes from a small culture has an outsize impact on that country's economic output.

But lets watch the experiment play out. Maybe the book stores in SF that are closing due to the new wage are just abberations or unfortunate side effects.

Re: Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown

#40

I think the minimum wage is a helpful tool or has been historically. But as others have said when you raise the minimum wage, prices increase, and by far the largest groups that consume the same goods/services are also relatively poor themselves (so essentially you increase pay but also costs to the poorest in society). More as a thought experiment than anything: What would happen if, instead of increasing the minimu…

Ben & Jerry's use to do this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_%26_Jerry%27s#Wages
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