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Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown

nytimes.com

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Re: Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown

#11

Post by jefurii »

johnjac wrote: post #3
civilframe wrote: post #2

I don't believe that raising the minimum wage will trigger businesses to cut jobs significantly. They will probably pass the higher cost onto the consumer. Ultimately, it's a method of wealth redistribution, which is sorely needed in our economy.

The problem with this type of wealth redistribution is that the poor are often consumers of the same products and services served by min wage jobs. This is one of many reasons I support unconditional basic income. It allows labor to be accurately priced in the market, without raising cost to the poor.

> this type of wealth redistribution

As opposed to the kind where the bosses pay absurdly low wages and distribute the profits to themselves?

Update: grammar, typo

Re: Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown

#12

Post by afarrell »

fweespeech wrote: post #6
johnjac wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this type of wealth redistribution is that the poor are often consumers of the same products and services served by min wage jobs. This is one of many reasons I support unconditional basic income. It allows labor to be accurately priced in the market, without raising cost to the poor.

> The problem with this type of wealth redistribution is that the poor are often consumers of the same products and services served by min wage jobs. This is one of many reasons I support unconditional basic income. It allows labor to be accurately priced in the market, without raising cost to the poor. Yes but labor is less than half of the cost for everything. One of the most labor intensive is food [growing -> mar…

You would also want to have the IRS automatically fill out the tax returns of people making less than 3x the poverty line. Otherwise the poor and frazzled would not take advantage of this.

Re: Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown

#13

Post by grecy »

This is absurd. The results of raising the minimum wage are perfectly known. Learn from the other countries that have done it in the last 10-15-25 years. Australia, Scandinavian countries, etc. etc.

Why can't America look outside it's own borders and learn from what other countries have done and are doing?

i.e. watch this John Oliver video on gun control [1] where it's stated Australia is not on this planet and America can't learn anything from what they've done, because Australia is not the real world. Why do people think this way?

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pOiOhxujsE

Re: Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown

#14

Post by Kequc »

civilframe wrote: post #2

I don't believe that raising the minimum wage will trigger businesses to cut jobs significantly. They will probably pass the higher cost onto the consumer. Ultimately, it's a method of wealth redistribution, which is sorely needed in our economy.

As a general rule prices in a capitalist society are already as high as they can be. Any higher and they would be undercut. When a company becomes large and therefore able to produce goods for less money, the price doesn't fall, profit margins increase.

These large businesses are the ones paying employees the federal minimum wage. Only thing that happens is their profit margin shrinks a tiny amount. As long as the profit margin is in the black the business will continue to operate.

It puts more money into the pockets of consumers, who are the drivers of the economy.

Re: Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown

#15

Post by rhino369 »

civilframe wrote: post #2

I don't believe that raising the minimum wage will trigger businesses to cut jobs significantly. They will probably pass the higher cost onto the consumer. Ultimately, it's a method of wealth redistribution, which is sorely needed in our economy.

Passing costs on the client isn't something you can just do. Many products and services have elastic demand. Fast food, for example, has been has found it very hard to raise away from their dollar menu pricing.

Businesses don't have to cut jobs either. They just have to move them.

Edit2: Costumers can also shift to lower cost alternatives. Online retailers have less overhead and lower labor costs. If you make Walmart more expensive than Amazon, Walmart will shutter stores laying massive numbers of people off.

Edit: Some economists have argued that past raises in min wage have not made noticeable impacts in employment. But this is way outsides of a normal rise in minimum wage. Going to 9 or 10 makes a lot sense. 15 dollars will put people in most of the country out of work.

Re: Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown

#16

Post by JonFish85 »

Kequc wrote: post #14
civilframe wrote: post #2

I don't believe that raising the minimum wage will trigger businesses to cut jobs significantly. They will probably pass the higher cost onto the consumer. Ultimately, it's a method of wealth redistribution, which is sorely needed in our economy.

As a general rule prices in a capitalist society are already as high as they can be. Any higher and they would be undercut. When a company becomes large and therefore able to produce goods for less money, the price doesn't fall, profit margins increase. These large businesses are the ones paying employees the federal minimum wage. Only thing that happens is their profit margin shrinks a tiny amount. As long as the pr…

"As a general rule prices in a capitalist society are already as high as they can be."

What you're discounting is that once the minimum wage is raised, the market can bear higher prices, and will move accordingly.

Re: Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown

#18

Post by Someone1234 »

I think the minimum wage is a helpful tool or has been historically. But as others have said when you raise the minimum wage, prices increase, and by far the largest groups that consume the same goods/services are also relatively poor themselves (so essentially you increase pay but also costs to the poorest in society).

More as a thought experiment than anything: What would happen if, instead of increasing the minimum wage, we capped the MAXIMUM wage at companies to 500x the lowest? That would effectively cap the CEO's pay at 6.9 million dollars for ANY business which pays the national minimum wage. That might sound like a lot but a lot of CEOs at larger corporations are getting in the order of 20 million right now (and this would have almost zero impact on small-medium businesses, as their CEOs don't make enough yet).

I guess what I am asking is: Instead of increasing minimum wage, what would happen if we could align the interests of the poorest employee and richest employee in a business?

PS - I am well aware that CEOs often don't take direct pay and instead take other financial instruments, such as stock. Instead of getting sidetracked into all of the potential workarounds, can we discuss the moral/legal/practical of tying the lowest/highest employee pay together?

Re: Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown

#19

Post by maxerickson »

mring33621 wrote: post #9

Landlords will benefit, short term. I suspect that people will move to areas offering higher minimum wages, which will drive up rental housing costs in those areas.

I think in some places the people making the new higher minimum will already be priced out of the housing market for the area the job is in. That doesn't rule out housing price increases at the other ends of their commutes, but I wonder if it will diffuse it quite a bit.

Re: Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown

#20

Post by [deleted] »

grecy wrote: post #13

This is absurd. The results of raising the minimum wage are perfectly known. Learn from the other countries that have done it in the last 10-15-25 years. Australia, Scandinavian countries, etc. etc. Why can't America look outside it's own borders and learn from what other countries have done and are doing? i.e. watch this John Oliver video on gun control [1] where it's stated Australia is not on this planet and Ameri…

[deleted]
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