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How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

blogs.lse.ac.uk

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Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#41

Post by danieltillett »

i000 wrote: post #33
danieltillett wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly missed the golden parachute. Even if I hung around until I was deadwood I would not have made anything financially. No academic in Australia gets rich just out of being an academic. I don’t regret my time as an academic other than my last two years. I should have left earlier, but the security the job afforded my family kept me there longer than I really should have stayed. This is a mistake many people m…

A well established principal investigator said this to his lab during a crisis "we are out of money" meeting: "We are all in the same boat, but only I have a parachute"

I can’t imagine ever saying something like this.

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#42

Post by danieltillett »

rhodri wrote: post #35
i000 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A well established principal investigator said this to his lab during a crisis "we are out of money" meeting: "We are all in the same boat, but only I have a parachute"

I can't imagine a parachute is that useful on a sinking ship

The rope would be very useful to strangle the PI who said this.

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#43

Post by saalweachter »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #37
1stop wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... That describes every job... ever. Unless you are the one stealing the resources directly from the land... in which case: Fat salaries on other peoples' property. But hey, hate on the academics, they are the WORST! right?

> That describes every job... ever Wait, what? Most jobs give you a salary, sure, but you nearly always end up producing far more value than you are paid back. The thieves are the shareholders of the company you serve. (As for the land… not every piece of land is someone's property —and that's good.)

If you are producing more value than you are being paid for, why are you working there?

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#44

Post by johnchristopher »

tdumitrescu wrote: post #38
danieltillett wrote: post #13

As some one who managed to succeed in the academic rat race (tenured professor) and who quit to do more productive things, my feeling is academia is more like cult. When inside it you believe you are doing important things, and on occasion you actual do (i.e. teaching and research), but the important activities are basically a hobby you fit around your full-time job of administration and politics. Once outside you re…

My experience was very similar. While I was in the land of postdoc fellowships and part-time teaching, it was a great job where I gladly accepted low pay in return for freedom to work on my own projects and structure my time independently. By the time I was a few years into a tenured post (at a European university), the amount of administrative drudgery, committees, useless meetings and other BS entirely unrelated to…

Out of curiosity, how old were you when you left ?

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#45

Post by rsfern »

stared wrote: post #30
lukasm wrote: post #16

>The reason for this is that the prospect of future wealth, rather than current income and working conditions, is the main driver for people to stay in the business: low-level drug sellers forgo current income for (uncertain) future wealth. That's description of statups.

With startups, you can pivot (with academia you can too, but it's rather 3-5 years). With startups, you can fail (and try again); in academia, if you fail, you fail. In short: with startups, if something is not working (or you totally lost belief in it), you can quit a project without quitting startups for good. In academia, if you want to stay, you often need to stay in a miserable conditions 1-3 more years (e.g. to…

I have several friends who have successfully navigated switching research groups and even departments in the middle of their PhD work. I also know a few who didn't manage such a graceful transition, but it's definitely possible to pivot during the PhD without giving up on the degree and research career.

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#46

Post by chucksmash »

saalweachter wrote: post #43
loup-vaillant wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That describes every job... ever Wait, what? Most jobs give you a salary, sure, but you nearly always end up producing far more value than you are paid back. The thieves are the shareholders of the company you serve. (As for the land… not every piece of land is someone's property —and that's good.)

If you are producing more value than you are being paid for, why are you working there?

What alternative are you suggesting? salesman who sells $100,000 in product a year should get paid $150,000 a year?

Unless you are part of a cost center, it seems to me the assumption is that you are producing more value than you cost to employ.

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#47

Post by 1stop »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #37
1stop wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... That describes every job... ever. Unless you are the one stealing the resources directly from the land... in which case: Fat salaries on other peoples' property. But hey, hate on the academics, they are the WORST! right?

> That describes every job... ever Wait, what? Most jobs give you a salary, sure, but you nearly always end up producing far more value than you are paid back. The thieves are the shareholders of the company you serve. (As for the land… not every piece of land is someone's property —and that's good.)

But you a receiving "someone else's money".

Every piece of property was stolen at some point even if it was sold legally after that. All major resources generally have come from such "acquisitions".

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#48

Post by 1stop »

chucksmash wrote: post #46
saalweachter wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are producing more value than you are being paid for, why are you working there?

What alternative are you suggesting? salesman who sells $100,000 in product a year should get paid $150,000 a year? Unless you are part of a cost center, it seems to me the assumption is that you are producing more value than you cost to employ.

Or people get paid their value, and we stop thinking it's okay for a select few to reap the surplus value of others... you know, kind of like how we got rid of slavery (except we didn't, we just paid a little more for it).

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#49

Post by nmrm2 »

j2kun wrote: post #5

The article claims a problem is that there aren't enough mid-tier positions, for those who have just acquired a PhD but aren't yet suitable for a professorship. What sort of solution could one imagine? Outside of post-doctorate positions, there's neither funding nor desire for the kind of research that you need to further an academic career.

> Outside of post-doctorate positions, there's neither funding nor desire for the kind of research that you need to further an academic career.

At least in Computer Science, the alternative is to simply go into industry at a company that will let you continue publishing, and get a paper out every year or two. Lots of people have successfully made the transition back into academia after a post-PhD stint in industry.

Re: How Academia Resembles a Drug Gang (2013)

#50

Post by tdumitrescu »

johnchristopher wrote: post #44
tdumitrescu wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience was very similar. While I was in the land of postdoc fellowships and part-time teaching, it was a great job where I gladly accepted low pay in return for freedom to work on my own projects and structure my time independently. By the time I was a few years into a tenured post (at a European university), the amount of administrative drudgery, committees, useless meetings and other BS entirely unrelated to…

Out of curiosity, how old were you when you left ?

34. other profs i've known who quit academia were in their late 30s/early 40s. (and of course a ton of grad students and undergrads who stopped much earlier, and people who never got jobs and eventually worked outside academia, but that's much more common)
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