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In Iraq, I raided insurgents. In Virginia, the police raided me

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Re: In Iraq, I raided insurgents. In Virginia, the police raided me

#191

Post by yesbabyyes »

powertower wrote: post #186
yesbabyyes wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This constant editing of old comments is getting worrisome. There is a perfect threaded comment system available here, why not let us use it? This is just corny. That Breitbart story was part of the first 5%, right? It wasn't very convincing either, especially not in an argument about media narratives... Anyway, as I recall it Mr Zimmerman's photo and his Peruvian heritage was reported early on in mainstream media. I…

> This constant editing of old comments is getting worrisome. I've edited 1 comment to expand it. I also correct spelling mistakes when I see them. And sometimes, within the first 10 minutes, I might add a sentence to the current reply. > It seems to me you don't have a lot of convincing arguments for your initial sweeping claims. It was an unfortunate event. ... None of your arguments have any bearing on this fact,…

Come on. You rewrote the comment totally, to the point where earlier replies don't make any sense. You did this with your other posts to, though not as aggressively, adding points, fleshing them out. It's weird. The discussion gets ever weirder. Oh, now you did it again - to concede the fact.

Anyway, on topic: There is a photo of me holding a gun. I have been reported to the police. I have used medicine recreationally. I have had trouble with teachers, being something of an unruly kid to them at times. It's easy to paint most anyone in such a light.

Why should I get shot close to my home? What is it that you're arguing, in fact?

Re: In Iraq, I raided insurgents. In Virginia, the police raided me

#192

Post by mikeash »

ams6110 wrote: post #110
DanBC wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Enough" in that you have people on HN saying pretty much that most of the black people who get shot and killed by police deserved it and that black people are stupid violent criminals so it's no wonder they get killed so often, and that if only they were docile and compliant in the face of police harassment they wouldn't get shot so much. It's fucking weird seeing that stuff on HN, and it's scary to think how those…

There's a difference between the way you phrase it and the objective fact that most people who are killed by police are in fact people with lengthy and often violent criminal histories. Not all, of course. But most.

First of all, so what? Somebody with a lengthy and violent criminal history still has just as much of a right not to get killed by police as I do. Only if there is an imminent threat to life which lethal force is required to stop should the police use it.

Second, while true it can still be racist. For an example in a slightly different direction, take a look at Sandra Bland. The whole business started when she got pulled over while driving. One could say that it was totally legitimate to do so, because she did in fact commit a traffic infraction. I would say that it's still bad behavior by the policeman and most likely racist behavior, because it was a trivial infraction that tons of people commit every day, often in front of police, and almost never get pulled over for it.

In the case of victims of police shootings being violent criminals, that may be true for victims of all races, but the violent criminal history is emphasized much more for black people. So even if the histories are there for all races, if the histories are only brought up as justification when the victim is black, then the phrasing you object to is still accurate.

Re: In Iraq, I raided insurgents. In Virginia, the police raided me

#193

Post by mikeash »

adventured wrote: post #138
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She was put into jail for committing an unwritten infraction called "Pissing Off the Police" Most officers feel entitled to a considerable amount of respect and many of them are prone to use their discretion in order to extract revenge for perceived personal insults. This has always been the case. Recently we have technology that increasingly exposes this and other sorts of wrongdoing.

I always find it interesting that most people don't realize police brutality, and people being killed by police, was worse 40 years ago than today. The difference is, today there's a bright spotlight on police brutality, and 200 million smart phones.

Don't they? I always thought that the current outrage was more along the lines of, "Look guys, we're supposed to be past this 'killing black people for being black' thing, and anyway we can all see you doing this stuff now, so why are you still doing it? Seriously, stop it already!"

I certainly could be wrong, that's just my vague impression.

Re: In Iraq, I raided insurgents. In Virginia, the police raided me

#194

Post by powertower »

yesbabyyes wrote: post #191
powertower wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This constant editing of old comments is getting worrisome. I've edited 1 comment to expand it. I also correct spelling mistakes when I see them. And sometimes, within the first 10 minutes, I might add a sentence to the current reply. > It seems to me you don't have a lot of convincing arguments for your initial sweeping claims. It was an unfortunate event. ... None of your arguments have any bearing on this fact,…

Come on. You rewrote the comment totally, to the point where earlier replies don't make any sense. You did this with your other posts to, though not as aggressively, adding points, fleshing them out. It's weird. The discussion gets ever weirder. Oh, now you did it again - to concede the fact. Anyway, on topic: There is a photo of me holding a gun. I have been reported to the police. I have used medicine recreationall…

Sorry. Not interested. Now you are just baiting me with b.s.

Re: In Iraq, I raided insurgents. In Virginia, the police raided me

#195

Post by downandout »

"Rhoads defended the procedure, calling the officers’ actions “on point.” It’s not standard to conduct investigations beforehand because that delays the apprehension of suspects, he told me."

That is dereliction of a police officer's duty. The entire purpose of a police force is to investigate potential crimes, and then, if it is determined that a crime has occurred, to arrest those involved. This man, a shift commander, is literally saying that their policy is to shoot first and ask questions later. He should, at a minimum, be fired. Additionally, if he has actually structured his department in a way that has officers arresting people without prior investigation, he and all others carrying out this policy should be criminally prosecuted for false imprisonment.

Re: In Iraq, I raided insurgents. In Virginia, the police raided me

#196

Post by mikeash »

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #26
jowiar wrote: post #23

FWIW Fairfax County, VA is about as rich, white, and suburban place that you can find in the US.

I wholeheartedly disagree with that. Alexandria, maybe. But Fairfax County is pretty large: it encompasses Annandale, Springfield, and Centreville. Springfield has a heavy latino population, and Centreville and Annandale have like a 25% Asian population. Annandale even has a section called "Little Korea" for pete's sake. To be fair, though, Alexandria is not fair from Arlington, and about the only people who can affo…

"Rich" is accurate. Fairfax County is #2 in the US for median household income.

"White" not so much. It's about 63% white, which is similar to the nation as a whole.

"Suburban" for sure.

So I'd say two out of three on that one.

Re: In Iraq, I raided insurgents. In Virginia, the police raided me

#197

Post by Tomte »

Mithaldu wrote: post #152
meowface wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, far fewer people own guns in Germany than they do in the US. Police in Germany likely carry weapons to deal with knives and other close range weapons, while police in the US carry weapons to deal with long range weapons.

Nope, they carry guns. https://www.google.de/search?q=polizei+deutschland&tbm=isch People here don't mind because they know german cops are trained to use them responsibly.

He's not talking about police officers' weapons.

People in Germany usually don't carry weapons.

Re: In Iraq, I raided insurgents. In Virginia, the police raided me

#198

Post by Tomte »

adventured wrote: post #128
vowelless wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the things that stuck out at me was the huge amount of hours they spend training to "not" shoot, and learning how to de-escalate situations. I think that the likelihood of civilians being armed in the US is a lot higher than in Germany, so I can imagine why American cops are a little more paranoid. I've seen cops put a hand on their gun as they approach suspects, which I think is part of the training here. I…

Germany has 30 guns per 100 people. The US has 88. It's the rate of violence that is dramatically different, and not nearly as much the per capita gun ownership rate.

And highly restricted. People are not allowed to carry, concealed or not, unless they are on their their way to and from hunting, for example. At home they have to be locked up in a safe. And so on.

Re: In Iraq, I raided insurgents. In Virginia, the police raided me

#199

Post by mikeash »

powertower wrote: post #190
mikeash wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That newsmax.com article is fascinating. The first three facts in their list have no relevance to the legitimacy of the shooting. They are clearly trying to paint Michael Brown as a bad person who deserved to die, and they aren't even being subtle about it. The fact that he had just stolen something has absolutely no relevance to the question of whether Darren Wilson acted correctly when he fired his gun. One thing I…

> The fact that he had just stolen something has absolutely no relevance to the question of whether Darren Wilson acted correctly when he fired his gun. The fact that his physical description, the event of the strong-armed robbery, and the report of the stolen item, was brought-cast - which led to the events that followed - is not relevant?

How is it relevant? The question is whether Darren Wilson was justified in using lethal force. The standards for the use of lethal force by police do not, to my knowledge, contain any mention of previous criminal activity by the suspect.

The typical standard in the US is that lethal force is only justified when the person represents an immediate danger to others. I personally think it should go a bit farther than this and also explicitly state that lethal force must be the last resort, i.e. that the person must not only present a danger to others, but that lethal force must be the only way to stop it. Either way, the fact that Michael Brown had just stolen stuff doesn't come into it.

Re: In Iraq, I raided insurgents. In Virginia, the police raided me

#200

Post by graycat »

The solution in the US is supposed to be US democracy.

A first step is freedom of the press so that citizens can become informed.

A second step is for problems to be exposed in the press as in the OP.

A third step is for citizens in the area with such problems to inform their elected officials that the police need better supervision to solve the problems.

Fourth, with enough concern from voting citizens, the political supervision of the police needs to tell the police chief, etc. to clean up their act.

If problems continue, then the mayor, etc. needs to get the Chief of Police a new job, say, cleaning the sidewalks with a toothbrush -- "Get'm nice and clean, now, y'hear. Good to see you doing well at the work you are best suited for.".

With more concern, lawyers, including the local prosecutors, can bring legal cases against the police. As in Baltimore now, a few serious legal cases against the police can calm down the whole police force like a few million pills of Valium.

Net, via our democracy, the power, essentially all of the power, really overwhelming power, is fully in the hands of the voting citizens. All citizens have to do is find a sympathetic candidate and pull a lever in a voting booth.

With any kind of serious activity by voting citizens, police arrogance can disappear like a snowball in a hot July in Vegas.

The police need to be worried now: Somewhere in the US is a billionaire who believes in the US Constitution and is ready to spend a little money to set up police sting operations, have hidden cameras recording everything, make a really big public story about the abuses, have teams of lawyers filling the court dockets with every legal case they can come up with, and then organizing some political activity to get the politicians on board.

The story for the police? Simple: Clean up your act on your own or the voters, politicians, and lawyers will do it for you.

Too much of the police have talked to themselves too much and talked themselves into believing a lot of nonsense reasons why they should treat the citizens like dirt. Well, that treatment and those reasons won't cut it, not for even a minute, once the sunlight shines on the situation -- instead, voters, politicians, and lawyers have the power, overwhelming power, and will stop the nonsense.

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