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The Verge's web sucks

blog.lmorchard.com

71–80 of 137 posts

Re: The Verge's web sucks

#71
The problem is shared between publishers and ad networks.

Sites are loading up on anything and everything to offset costs and it's only getting worse with adblock. And ad networks are just built with poor engineering and no attention paid to the user's experience. It's too easy to whip up a basic ad server and just load a dozen more tags on a page with the focus being volume and clicks. Unfortunately, there isn't an easy way to fix things because of the way money flows.

Disclaimer: I'm the founder of a digital ad network.

Re: The Verge's web sucks

#72

As a consultant, I only see web site producers making an effort to curb poor web practices when Google forces them to: Google's move to boost mobile-friendly design in the rankings has driven us a TON of responsive design work. I wonder if that is going to be what it takes to fix today's bloat problems: Google takes the hammer to sites that too much advertising cruft. Otherwise, I don't see business makers seeing muc…

I don't think any of this is appropriate for a search engine. I want a search engine to find me the best results for my query based on content, even if it's ad-riddled.

Re: The Verge's web sucks

#73

Nilay Patel has the audacity to say that the mobile web sucks [0]. No. It's just your website that sucks, mate. [0] - https://www.theverge.com/2015/7/20/9002721/the-mobile-web-su...

No, it isn't. The mobile web does suck, and I say this as someone who works making mobile web sites every day.

While Nilay's article is a bit hit and miss, it still seems pretty undeniable to me that the mobile web experience is inferior to native apps.

Re: The Verge's web sucks

#74
post #5

After reading this article, I decided to try reading the verge in a more "limited" browser which doesn't support endless Javascript and too may advanced features: Emacs built in web-browser, or "eww" (that's its name). It's sort of like Lynx or w3m, except you can click things and it shows actual images! You can see it here: http://imgur.com/FqJVB0U You know what? The site and all content loads instantly . It may not…

There are some pretty esoteric options available for just about every operating system:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_lightweight_web_...

Re: The Verge's web sucks

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He blames mobile browsers for at least half the article (I had to stop reading). Sure, mobile browsers may not be great, but web sites these days seem to be written by people who just don't give a shit. Their hipster attitude is ruining people's experience.

I agree. I've wanted to write my own blog post about the things that suck about Mobile web, it's not the device or the software (typically), it's the way websites are designed (or not) for phones that sucks. You get advertisements that hijack all your screen real estate, open up the Android Market out of nowhere (why do they have this much priviledge? That shouldn't happen on the desktop without asking for permission…

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Re: The Verge's web sucks

#76

Wow. From the article, an example post on the Verge "downloaded 12MB - a little over 7MB in that is JavaScript" and a refresh of the page with things cached still downloaded 8MB again. And key here -- the article HTML content itself was 75k, the rest is ad network Javascript. (apparently over 20 different companies) I don't like tracking scripts either but why can't the ad networks get together and create a shared sc…

This is complicated because of how ad networks work and all the layers involved.

We have somewhat of a standard called RTB (real-time bidding) where an exchange will see each impression and run an auction in 100ms for each ad slot and then take the winning bid and render it on the page. That was easy and efficient when it was just an image. Now ad formats have become more "engaging" and require javascript tags to run (like those expanding ads). So now the exchange tag wont just load an image but load more JS tags to render the ad.

Then we have DMPs (data management platforms) that are solely about measuring your audience. Each one is a isolated silo of data and they dont share because they all have their own algorithms and backend connections with offline data sources to provide value. Most publishers and networks however have to work with all of them since ad buyers want access to everything or they wont spend.

Then we have the new 3rd layer of vendors who do ad fraud and viewability (measuring whether an ad is actually visible in the browser window) which is yet more tags to make sure the original ads are actually rendered and worth something. Then there are some ad networks that don't work through RTB exchanges that need their own tags on the page.

An additional tag isn't the problem, it's the fact that these networks are designed to just offload as much as possible to yet more providers which means a single 5kb tag can balloon into dozens of requests which all load their own crappy frameworks to do the same thing. 10 small tags on a page are fine. 10 small tags that load 25 tags each is what's killing these sites.

Disclaimer: I've built ad networks and run my own now.

EDIT: I wanted to add that part of what I'm pushing for in the industry is more regulation not only with business practices and data but also technical certification. Something to prove that an ad network is actually designed well and won't be a burden on sites/users. Then buyers can just trust that certification without asking for all these 3rd party vendor verification tags that slow down sites and increase cost. Any ideas for making this happen would be appreciated.

Re: The Verge's web sucks

#77

Wow. From the article, an example post on the Verge "downloaded 12MB - a little over 7MB in that is JavaScript" and a refresh of the page with things cached still downloaded 8MB again. And key here -- the article HTML content itself was 75k, the rest is ad network Javascript. (apparently over 20 different companies) I don't like tracking scripts either but why can't the ad networks get together and create a shared sc…

Why can't the site just collect some data from the client and forward it to the ad networks on the backend? All of this stuff needs to happen out of band.

Good question: we are getting there with the major DMPs (data management platforms) which are Krux, Exelate/Nielsen, BlueKai/Oracle, Adobe, Facebook and Google. There are dozens of smaller players but they now all hook into these major 6 so those are the tags you're seeing.

At this level, these are billion dollar companies so there won't be much more consolidation.

Re: The Verge's web sucks

#78
post #27
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't like tracking scripts either but why can't the ad networks get together and create a shared script instead of so many that seem to be redundant? I've asked that myself many times, and I mostly decided that part of the reason is at least partly related to why there were so many browser engines back in the day (Mozilla, IE, Webkit, Opera, etc). Each company thinks they can track something differently/better t…

Also, a lot of these products are part snake oil, so getting together to come up with shared tools would expose all that waste and redundancy and put half of them out of business.. Wait, that sounds great.

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Re: The Verge's web sucks

#80
post #58
post #31

> We keep things like Adblock Plus at arm's length for plausible deniability - but everyone I know uses it. I wish this had been included in the main body of this post, with some metrics; everyone you know uses it because it makes the web suck so much less. Loading The Verge's article in a Chrome incognito window: 19.6 MB transferred, finished in 41.9 s, huge ad covering the entire page above the developer console I…

Default-deny is the best answer against bloat -- though not for everybody unfortunately, but I did try to make it as straightforward as possible with uBlock Origin[1]. Using default-deny in uBlock Origin/Chromium[2] and with the page displaying properly, I get from Network pane in dev console: - 62 requests - 508 KB transferred Once you start using default-deny mode, it's difficult to go back to anything less restric…

I have been using NoScript for years and I selectively whitelist enough domains until the site loads properly. Typically the actual domain, perhaps a web server & CDN. The raft of ancillary domains I just leave blocked.

Working at a major e-commerce company, I get I why they're there. Like many others, I've found the web much more... responsive... without the huge page loads, and I don't like the idea of how far my data travels around and is shared, corss-referenced, etc.

Great post.

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