Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013) • Hacker News Board

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#61

Post by nailer » Fri, Jul 24, 2015, 2:35 PM UTC

dmansen wrote: post #32

et1337 wrote: post #20

The only problem I have with feminism is that it's often a movement against men, and not for women. I think they would be a lot more successful doing things to encourage women rather than disparage men. Meredith would not have had to write this article. Of course, it's a lot harder to be positive rather than negative.

you should try reading about feminism sometime

Maybe they just read, say, Dworkin, on how all heterosexual sex is rape? Pretending people who disagree with political movements just need to understand those movements more is presumptuous.

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#62

Post by yenda » Fri, Jul 24, 2015, 2:35 PM UTC

xtx23 wrote: post #48

the author is just too sensitive in online discussions. One could simply dismiss your idea for being a nerd, gay, or sounds like a woman even if you are a guy. There is nothing that excludes a guy from the same snub behavior thrown by trolls. It is a community issue, not a man vs. woman issue. In fact, on the internet, you can't even be sure that it is a guy trolling a girl, but thinking makes it so. Empathy is about…

You always know it's a guy, because of Rule 16

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#63

Post by KingMob » Fri, Jul 24, 2015, 2:37 PM UTC

Kenji wrote: post #30

There had been interest, but one of the committers had dismissed the idea out of hand because a woman had proposed it. It was the funniest thing I’d heard in months — I literally doubled over laughing at how nonplussed he must have been to see it not only implemented, but implemented to rousing success. Now that's a woman I respect. Instead of whining around, she just implements it. Suckerpunched the misogynist. You…

So... more perceptive women, who see from the outset that they will have to work twice as hard to be only equally respected in the industry, should shut up and get to work instead of pointing out the unfairness? They should toil for a decade or two in order to have the requisite cred before complaining about injustice?

You don't even know your "stop complaining and start doing" solution will work. Since the anti-female bias isn't rationally based on women's ideas/work to begin with, what makes you think it will be any more rational when she produces better ideas/work? Some men may accept her, but grudgingly. Others may find their ego threatened and react even worse.

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#64

Post by psycr » Fri, Jul 24, 2015, 2:37 PM UTC

geofft wrote: post #7

This is from 2013. It seems like a response to something, possibly one of Shanley's essays that's now no longer on Medium; I can't help but feel that I'm missing context as I get towards the end. This also seems like a straightforward example of how mainstream feminism is bad at intersectionality. Arguably both sides in this discussion are not great at it: I feel like there's probably a good answer that involves neit…

I don't know what this means:

> This also seems like a straightforward example of how mainstream feminism is bad at intersectionality.

Can you explain? What are they bad at?

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#65

Post by Kenji » Fri, Jul 24, 2015, 2:37 PM UTC

huu wrote: post #37

Kenji wrote: post #30

There had been interest, but one of the committers had dismissed the idea out of hand because a woman had proposed it. It was the funniest thing I’d heard in months — I literally doubled over laughing at how nonplussed he must have been to see it not only implemented, but implemented to rousing success. Now that's a woman I respect. Instead of whining around, she just implements it. Suckerpunched the misogynist. You…

And if she complains about being treated this way for being a woman, she wouldn't have your respect?

No, people who complain don't have my respect (at least not more than the baseline respect I have for every human). Unless she does really awesome stuff despite complaining.

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#66

Post by pohl » Fri, Jul 24, 2015, 2:38 PM UTC

vonklaus wrote: post #21

This was awesome. Not because it dispels a meme that is negative in the industry, not because it is some sort of proof a woman can succeed in tech, or any other of this tropic nonsense. It was such an amazing message that was totally gender neutral: "I like building things because I am curious and I pursue knowledge for its own sake" With all the confirmation bias and name calling (which I am certainly guilty of from…

...it is refreshing to hear someone talking about how want both sides to shut up so they can get back to building...

Wouldn't it be even more refreshing, though, to watch them just choose to tune-out and go back to hacking, rather than asking anyone to shut up?

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#67

Post by i_cannot_hack » Fri, Jul 24, 2015, 2:38 PM UTC

geofft wrote: post #7

This is from 2013. It seems like a response to something, possibly one of Shanley's essays that's now no longer on Medium; I can't help but feel that I'm missing context as I get towards the end. This also seems like a straightforward example of how mainstream feminism is bad at intersectionality. Arguably both sides in this discussion are not great at it: I feel like there's probably a good answer that involves neit…

Here's the (now deleted) medium article in question:

http://web.archive.org/web/20131231191948/https://medium.com...

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#68

Post by zo1 » Fri, Jul 24, 2015, 2:38 PM UTC

kohanz wrote: post #6

> There had been interest, but one of the committers had dismissed the idea out of hand because a woman had proposed it. It blows my mind that this stuff still happens. In the OSS world of all places. I can't even compute how someone can apply such "logic".

Why? I have seen ideas/suggestions blown off for equally vapid reasons. Sometimes they just don't like me, and don't like that I suggested it, for whatever reason that is.

Why should a reason of "female" be special?

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#69

Post by doki_pen » Fri, Jul 24, 2015, 2:39 PM UTC

lsy wrote: post #23

I understand the author has strong feelings about her innate tactics for avoiding misery, but the ultimate thrust of her "amelioration patterns" are variants on "toughen up" or "don't feed the trolls", both of which assign responsibility for the problem to victims of misogyny, not perpetrators. The author got lucky and doesn't, or can't, feel bad about misogyny. This isn't true for everyone, nor should it be. I agree…

That's a tricky distinction between empower a victim and blaming a victim. If I teach you to call the police if someone breaks into your house, that's not the say as blaming you for someone breaking into your house. She is talking about strategies that she's learned that disarm aggressors, which is not victim blaming.

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#70

Post by Ygg2 » Fri, Jul 24, 2015, 2:40 PM UTC

astazangasta wrote: post #34

hodwik wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asperger's is a real diagnosis.

You are assuming that because something can be diagnosed it must exist in fact.

Why is this downvoted?

Wasn't homosexuality treated as a mental illness?