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Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

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Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#41
post #10

To work in technology, especially programming, you have to put a heck of a lot of effort into the subject. If it's not some legacy technology then that also means learning constantly (on your own initiative). That's what I like about programming, it rewards knowledge and ability - whereas other careers reward other attributes. I look at the Twttier-style feminists (I don't mean the traditional equality types, but the…

If women decide to talk about anything other than their "equality" under the law, they are The Extremists who are "doing it for their own gain"? (What does this phrase mean? I would assume women would be engaging in feminist discourse for their own gain, who else's?)

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#42
post #9

Interesting that she is autistic. Autism is apparently more common among boys than girls. Could this be one reason why tech attracts more men than women? Arguably, a slightly autistic personality is helpful for a programmer. Possibly it could also be a big reason for many future programmers to turn to tech in the first place, where you deal with strict, deterministic rules instead of emotions. This would obviously no…

Interestingly, Silicon Valley has quadruple the national rates of autism, and it's speculated that the genes that contribute to excelling in engineering also contribute to autism spectrum disorders.

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#43
post #35
post #30

There had been interest, but one of the committers had dismissed the idea out of hand because a woman had proposed it. It was the funniest thing I’d heard in months — I literally doubled over laughing at how nonplussed he must have been to see it not only implemented, but implemented to rousing success. Now that's a woman I respect. Instead of whining around, she just implements it. Suckerpunched the misogynist. You…

Everyone can see the purpose of this comment. Telling women to quit whining and shut up is not novel.

It applies to men too, but I don't see an overly emotional post about how difficult men's life is every other day on top of hackernews. Self-pity is among the most destructive emotions you can feel.

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#44
post #23

I understand the author has strong feelings about her innate tactics for avoiding misery, but the ultimate thrust of her "amelioration patterns" are variants on "toughen up" or "don't feed the trolls", both of which assign responsibility for the problem to victims of misogyny, not perpetrators. The author got lucky and doesn't, or can't, feel bad about misogyny. This isn't true for everyone, nor should it be. I agree…

Using perpetrator and victims in this context dilutes and devalues the meaning of those words.

Also misogyny is not an act, so it cannot be perpetrated.

My experience with women in tech is that they are smart, strong, foul mouthed, sarcastic, heavy drinkers and awesome dirty joke storytellers. They are the creme de la creme.

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#45
post #36

This was awesome. Not because it dispels a meme that is negative in the industry, not because it is some sort of proof a woman can succeed in tech, or any other of this tropic nonsense. It was such an amazing message that was totally gender neutral: "I like building things because I am curious and I pursue knowledge for its own sake" With all the confirmation bias and name calling (which I am certainly guilty of from…

Why should women shut up about their experiences?

> they just want both sides to shut up

> Why should women

Sorry, not keen to argue here. Quite a good post in the original article, thought it was an interesting take.

italics added for emphasis.

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#46
post #6

> There had been interest, but one of the committers had dismissed the idea out of hand because a woman had proposed it. It blows my mind that this stuff still happens. In the OSS world of all places. I can't even compute how someone can apply such "logic".

It requires one to abandon certain assumptions about human behavior. When you have discarded enough, many possible hypotheses that could explain the behavior appear:

  1. The person was misogynist, and actually believed that women
     are less capable than men, and their ideas less valuable.
  2. The person was insecure about their own position of power,
     and would seize upon any convenient excuse to undermine
     potential future challengers to his authority.
  3. The person minimized effort, and shot down the idea using
     arbitrary reasoning only as the means to avoid having to
     implement any part of it himself.
  4. The person was inexperienced and ignorant about socially
     acceptable behaviors, and was merely copying previously
     observed behaviors.
  5. The person was a troll, and chose that reason as the one which
     would be most inflammatory to the target.
  ...
I could continue, but it suffices to show that if something that actually happened cannot be explained while preserving your current set of assumptions, one or more of them must be flawed. In most cases, the easiest to strike down is the assumption that individual humans cannot hold logically incompatible beliefs, or cannot act rationally at some times and irrationally at others. Smart people can do some incredibly stupid things.

Another one that seems common is the assumption that all members of a synthetic tribe will tend to hold similar values and beliefs, and conduct themselves in a similar manner. People assume that members of a religion will behave in a particular way. People assume that members of a profession will act in a certain way.

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#48
the author is just too sensitive in online discussions. One could simply dismiss your idea for being a nerd, gay, or sounds like a woman even if you are a guy. There is nothing that excludes a guy from the same snub behavior thrown by trolls. It is a community issue, not a man vs. woman issue. In fact, on the internet, you can't even be sure that it is a guy trolling a girl, but thinking makes it so.

Empathy is about seeing it both sides. It's not about everyone else making you feel welcome and comfortable.

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#49
post #27

[deleted]

I like how you put 'evolutionary psychology' and 'scientific' in the same sentence as if they are at all related. Few modern fields are more full of baseless speculation and supposition, lack falsifiability, etc.

Layfolk coming up with just-so stories to justify what they want to be true are very, very different from actual scientists doing actual research on actual falsifiable hypotheses in actual evolutionary psychology. Don't let the former fool you into thinking the latter doesn't exist.

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#50
Her experience is certainly very interesting and unique. There's a bit of intersectionalism going on here, though. The experiences of a non-autistic woman in technology, I would imagine, are dramatically different from an autistic woman. Just by the very nature of social intelligence.
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