Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

The complicated thing about an article like this is that her experiences are definitely valid, it isn't hard to see where she is coming from, and I'm actually glad to read a piece from this perspective. Yet I can't help but already hear the ugly gloating and coopting of the MRAs before I even got to the predictable comments at the bottom. Can we separate intent from effect, of should we expect every blogger to be politically savvy enough to preempt such coopting by explicitly distancing herself from the MRA/gamergate toads?

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#5

Post by emodendroket » Fri, Jul 24, 2015, 1:50 PM UTC

I don't know how much sense it makes to argue with "feminism" since it's an umbrella that covers a bunch of different schools of thought that have pretty serious disagreements among each other.

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#6

Post by kohanz » Fri, Jul 24, 2015, 1:50 PM UTC

> There had been interest, but one of the committers had dismissed the idea out of hand because a woman had proposed it.

It blows my mind that this stuff still happens. In the OSS world of all places. I can't even compute how someone can apply such "logic".

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#7

Post by geofft » Fri, Jul 24, 2015, 1:51 PM UTC

This is from 2013. It seems like a response to something, possibly one of Shanley's essays that's now no longer on Medium; I can't help but feel that I'm missing context as I get towards the end.

This also seems like a straightforward example of how mainstream feminism is bad at intersectionality. Arguably both sides in this discussion are not great at it: I feel like there's probably a good answer that involves neither belittling people for having different reads of social interactions nor asserting that everyone else should read social interactions the way you do.

I wonder what the people in this disagreement would say today. I think tech feminism has been getting more aware of intersectionality of late, so I'm curious if the problems the author identified about have gotten better.

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#8

Post by traverseda » Fri, Jul 24, 2015, 1:52 PM UTC

marijn wrote: post #4

The complicated thing about an article like this is that her experiences are definitely valid, it isn't hard to see where she is coming from, and I'm actually glad to read a piece from this perspective. Yet I can't help but already hear the ugly gloating and coopting of the MRAs before I even got to the predictable comments at the bottom. Can we separate intent from effect, of should we expect every blogger to be pol…

From another article of hers, [when nerds collide](https://medium.com/@maradydd/when-nerds-collide-31895b01e68c)

>[ ... ] much of the backlash from weird nerds against “brogrammers” and “geek feminists” alike. (If you thought the conflict was only between those two groups, or that someone who criticises one group must necessarily be a member of the other, then you haven’t been paying close enough attention.) Both groups are latecomers barging in on a cultural space that was once a respite for us, and we don’t appreciate either group bringing its cultural conflicts into our space in a way that demands we choose one side or the other. That’s a false dichotomy, and false dichotomies make us want to tear our hair out.

Also, I'm not sure I'm seeing the "predictable comments" that you are.

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#9

Post by geon » Fri, Jul 24, 2015, 1:52 PM UTC

Interesting that she is autistic. Autism is apparently more common among boys than girls. Could this be one reason why tech attracts more men than women?

Arguably, a slightly autistic personality is helpful for a programmer. Possibly it could also be a big reason for many future programmers to turn to tech in the first place, where you deal with strict, deterministic rules instead of emotions.

This would obviously not excuse misogyny in tech, but could help explain the gender imbalance.

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#10

Post by justuk » Fri, Jul 24, 2015, 1:53 PM UTC

To work in technology, especially programming, you have to put a heck of a lot of effort into the subject. If it's not some legacy technology then that also means learning constantly (on your own initiative). That's what I like about programming, it rewards knowledge and ability - whereas other careers reward other attributes.

I look at the Twttier-style feminists (I don't mean the traditional equality types, but the extremists) and can only think that they are doing it for their own gain. If they really wanted to participate in their targets of anger, they could just do what everyone else does: work hard at a hobby for years, even decades, and maybe, just maybe they too could dominate the field.