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Socialism, American-Style

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Re: Socialism, American-Style

#41
Why is socialism such a boogieman in the USA? I just don't understand it. Does everyone in the USA think they're a temporarily embarrassed millionaire?

I hear so many horror stories from the USA. People's lives ruined because they lost their job, got injured or have some addiction problem. But those same people will curse socialism in that same breath if asked. I just don't understand it.

I'm from the Netherlands, and I'm proud to say I live in a socialist country. It means that if I'm doing very well for myself, I'll give up a bit more than I would've in a strictly capitalist country. Instead of paying 25-30% tax, I'll pay 50%.

And that doesn't matter. If I'm earning 300k+ in a year, I can miss it.

In return I know that my life is safe from being destroyed, regardless of social class I'm born in or will move to. My parents don't have any money? It doesn't matter, education is free. If I have or get some disability, I will be taken care of. If I get injured, I will be taken care of. If I get sick, I will be taken care of. By the community. Anything else, in my book, is uncivilized.

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To those citing governments destroying incentive structures (can't reply - your comment is deleted), I strongly suggest looking up the Dutch model for infrastructure. In a very, very summarized example, the government gives subsidy to private/public hybrid organizations. Those organizations compete in the regular market. In order to qualify for subsidy you need to meet the government standards. Think internet companies, hospitals, etc.

You're perfectly free to set up a 100% privatized hospital in the Netherlands - you just won't qualify for government subsidy.

Re: Socialism, American-Style

#43

To the americans here, please understand that socialism is NOT communism. Socialism is regrouping a lot of different things (including the most extreme form of communism) and please do not mix the two together.

Perhaps today the meanings are different (one is a superset). But according to Von Mises:

"In the terminology of Marx and Engels the words communism and socialism are synonymous. They are alternately applied without any distinction between them. The same was true for the practice of all Marxian groups and sects until 1917. "

http://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/1060#lf0069_label_908

Also, uses of "Liberalism" has been changed even more throughout the history.

Re: Socialism, American-Style

#44

Why is socialism such a boogieman in the USA? I just don't understand it. Does everyone in the USA think they're a temporarily embarrassed millionaire? I hear so many horror stories from the USA. People's lives ruined because they lost their job, got injured or have some addiction problem. But those same people will curse socialism in that same breath if asked. I just don't understand it. I'm from the Netherlands, an…

According to Richard D. Wolfe https://www.youtube.com/user/RichardDWolff

It's because American Capitalists felt threatened by the Socialists, because the New Deal and a bunch of other things that happened in the 20th century due to unions and Socialist activism along with American elite alignment that scared them and their continued ability to run America for their interest, so they spread tons of rhetoric and propaganda to make Socialism a boogie man, eventually associating it with Communism... and it worked.

In general in the United States ideological words get muddled through rhetoric and propaganda until you can no longer talk about them. When this happens it's impossible to act on anything because you can't talk about it much less come to any conclusion about whether it's good or not or if it serves your interests. It's a brilliant propaganda technique that seems to have been mastered to stifle any debate about ideology.

Re: Socialism, American-Style

#45

Why is socialism such a boogieman in the USA? I just don't understand it. Does everyone in the USA think they're a temporarily embarrassed millionaire? I hear so many horror stories from the USA. People's lives ruined because they lost their job, got injured or have some addiction problem. But those same people will curse socialism in that same breath if asked. I just don't understand it. I'm from the Netherlands, an…

"Why is socialism such a boogieman in the USA?"

Propaganda I assume. Socialist ideas may be ok as long as the word isn't used.

I guess we need to find a new politically correct word for it because the old one is too pejorative now.

Re: Socialism, American-Style

#46

Why is socialism such a boogieman in the USA? I just don't understand it. Does everyone in the USA think they're a temporarily embarrassed millionaire? I hear so many horror stories from the USA. People's lives ruined because they lost their job, got injured or have some addiction problem. But those same people will curse socialism in that same breath if asked. I just don't understand it. I'm from the Netherlands, an…

[deleted]

Re: Socialism, American-Style

#48

Why is socialism such a boogieman in the USA? I just don't understand it. Does everyone in the USA think they're a temporarily embarrassed millionaire? I hear so many horror stories from the USA. People's lives ruined because they lost their job, got injured or have some addiction problem. But those same people will curse socialism in that same breath if asked. I just don't understand it. I'm from the Netherlands, an…

  It means that if I'm doing very well for myself, I'll
  give up a bit more than I would've in a strictly 
  capitalist country. Instead of paying 25-30% tax, I'll 
  pay 50%. 

  And that doesn't matter. If I'm earning 300k+ in a year,
  I can miss it.

  In return I know that my life is safe from being 
  destroyed, regardless of social class I'm born in or
  will move to. My parents don't have any money? It doesn't
  matter, education is free. If I have or get some 
  disability, I will be taken care of. If I get injured, I
  will be taken care of. If I get sick, I will be taken 
  care of. By the community.
Here, I'm only referring to the sensible, politically astute contingent of Americans who yet don't warm up to socialism or even high taxation for that matter. I'm not talking about the impulsively right-leaning lot here.

I think such Americans genuinely question if such a smooth trade off - between paying a good chunk more in taxes and a proportionate increase in the standard of living of those on whom that increase in taxation is supposed to benefit - is ever possible in a government that is rife with dysfunction, graft and bewildering inefficiencies at every level. The examples of this present themselves at regular frequencies - say the botched roll out of the healthcare website [1] a few years ago - in the glare of the American media, which don't exactly help either.

Further exacerbating this problem is that bright young Americans [2] don't want to serve in the public sector in similar rates as in Northern Europe.

[1] Obamacare Website Costs Exceed $2 Billion, Study Finds

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-09-24/obamacare-...

[2] 'Pro-Government' Millennials Take Government Jobs, Discover They Suck, Move to the Private Sector

http://reason.com/blog/2014/12/17/millennials-take-governmen...

Re: Socialism, American-Style

#49
"Why is socialism such a boogieman in the USA?"

Because every single time it's been enacted in the past 100 years, it's resulted in the deaths of millions of its own citizenry. Because the very basis of the american legal system and the american legacy (not to mention english common law) is based on individual over collective rights. Socialism is, quite simply, unamerican, by definition.

Re: Socialism, American-Style

#50

Why is socialism such a boogieman in the USA? I just don't understand it. Does everyone in the USA think they're a temporarily embarrassed millionaire? I hear so many horror stories from the USA. People's lives ruined because they lost their job, got injured or have some addiction problem. But those same people will curse socialism in that same breath if asked. I just don't understand it. I'm from the Netherlands, an…

It means that if I'm doing very well for myself, I'll give up a bit more than I would've in a strictly capitalist country. Instead of paying 25-30% tax, I'll pay 50%. And that doesn't matter. If I'm earning 300k+ in a year, I can miss it. In return I know that my life is safe from being destroyed, regardless of social class I'm born in or will move to. My parents don't have any money? It doesn't matter, education is…

As far as I recall the Obama Healthcare Website was not developed by the government. It was developed by a private company. The front end was developed by Development Seed and the backend was developed by a multi-national.

That's what I mean about propaganda. To say this is the doing of socialism is pure propaganda.

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