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NASA’s Kepler Mission Discovers Bigger, Older Cousin to Earth

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Re: NASA’s Kepler Mission Discovers Bigger, Older Cousin to Earth

#151
post #77

At 2 billion years older than Earth, I can't begin to imagine what kinds of things could possibly be living on this planet. Given, of course, that it's got the right ingredients for life to arise. What if it's suffered huge extinctions recently? What if there's a domineering species out to conquer the planet just like humans? What if there's a society there more sophisticated than us? It's a very exciting discovery.

If there was an intelligent life form, like humans, it would have expanded into the cosmos and colonized the entire galaxy within only a million years of developing technology. Since we don't see traces of them everywhere, we must presume they don't exist.

I sometimes wonder if "like humans" is the key. What if past some level of technical advancement, organisms cease inhabiting the same scale as us. Physically and temporaly; they become microscopic and perceive+act on a time scale faster than us by orders of magnitude. Why inhabit the days/hours/seconds timescale when you can have the same experiences in micro/nanoseconds? So we would be mostly not interesting to them and expensive to interact with at our timescale. Not sure if we would notice them right under our noses.

Re: NASA’s Kepler Mission Discovers Bigger, Older Cousin to Earth

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be a case of the "great filter" being in the future, no?

I've always read the "great filter" as some kind of mass extinction. I just think that the Fermi paradox gained popularity when everyone thought that both our travel speeds and our population would continue to grow exponentially, making space colonization both inevitable and necessary. What if we (and every other intelligent life) just level off when we start reaching the limits of physics and the available resources…

I see it as a galactic cold war. On a galactic time scale, any civilization will reach a technology level of "maximum allowed by physics" relatively quickly, unless physics is indeed an infinite maze of rabbit holes.

Therefore inter-species conflicts are resolved by mass/energy available. Any civilization that doesn't expand to interstellar levels of power is subject to the whims of those that do. If you can expand, you must.

Re: NASA’s Kepler Mission Discovers Bigger, Older Cousin to Earth

#154
post #70

I want answers to three questions before I get excited: 1. Does it have active plate tectonics? 2. Does it have a working deep carbon cycle? 3. Has its atmosphere hung on to its hydrogen (that is, has it managed not to lose it all to high-altitude UV splitting and solar wind)? If the answer to all three of those is "yes" then this suddenly gets a lot more interesting, whether or not we can see any free oxygen in the…

Yeah, good questions. The thing that indicates to me is that, if we can find this one (and we exist)...there are probably lots of planets like this. Probably billions.

And if there are billions of them, then what are the odds that some of them would have plate tectonics, a deep carbon cycle and hydrogen?

Seem pretty high to me.

Re: NASA’s Kepler Mission Discovers Bigger, Older Cousin to Earth

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you could accelerate at 1 g , you could reach it in 7 years, in your reference frame.

Wait for the observer... isnt it.... 1800 / 17.... 100 years. So that means, a baby could reach the exoplanet, before it dies of old age, on a spaceship travelling 99% the speed of light, which can theoretically built right now. How did you arrive at your calculation of 7 years? Thanks!

I eyeballed it from here[1], which I should have just linked with my post.

[1] http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/rocket.h...

Re: NASA’s Kepler Mission Discovers Bigger, Older Cousin to Earth

#156

To help out anyone trying to search for stuff, * This exoplanet is now "Kepler-452b" (kepler_name), * In the "Kepler Object of Interest" catalog, it's KOI "K07016.01" (kepoi_name), * Its star is both K07016 and Kepler ID 8311864 (kepid), * In the broader 2MASS sky survey, the star has the id "J19440088+4416392" Sources (catalog search engines), http://exoplanetarchive.ipac.caltech.edu/cgi-bin/TblView/nph... https://a…

Thanks, awesome comment!

Re: NASA’s Kepler Mission Discovers Bigger, Older Cousin to Earth

#157
post #145
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is a intelligent live form millions years ahead of us it's most likely AI that doesn't want to make the contact.

And also doesn't want to use any resources, or perform any heat-generating computation?

Your big unstated assumption is that any intelligence will always consume the maximum resources it can and cause the maximally possible transformation of any habitat. Normally, when physicists look for these kinds of large-structure signs, the implicit assumption is that it's sufficient for one civilization to behave this way, but you seem to assert they all must be like that.

Any of the hypotheses we discuss in this thread (whether they are over-confidently stated as facts or marked as speculative) are inevitably deficient due to data derived from a sample size of one.

Re: NASA’s Kepler Mission Discovers Bigger, Older Cousin to Earth

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's jarring to think that if intelligent life were on Kepler 452-b and observing Earth, we're so far away that they would be seeing our "civilizations" in 615 AD: shrinking global population as the old Roman and Byzantine empires are overrun by barbarian hordes and Arab conquest, with some pockets of human progress in China. Is there something uncivilized about the Arab conquest of Byzantine lands? Had the Kepler…

Not a dig at anyone, especially not the Arabs who basically preserved philosophy and mathematics while Europe entered the Dark Ages. My point was simply that Kepler 452b-ians observing Earth would be seeing lots of war and destruction even though we're currently peacefully collaborating among mankind to discover and explore planets.

> observing Earth would be seeing lots of war and destruction even though we're currently peacefully collaborating among mankind to discover and explore planets.

If they were observing us today, they'd still see plenty of war and destruction.

It just so happens that a fraction of the worlds population lives under "peaceful" conditions. That's not universally true.

Re: NASA’s Kepler Mission Discovers Bigger, Older Cousin to Earth

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if it only took them 100 years to get to a star system 5 ly away, I would be amazed and impressed by a society that would be okay with investing in and working on at minimum a 105 year mission. Perhaps they live much much longer than we do :)

>working on at minimum a 105 year mission Cathedral building in the middle-ages was a multi-generational 80+ year affair and some of the Pyramids took even longer IIRC. So societies were/are definitely capable of working on ~100 year missions :)

Or the Sagrada Familia in Barcelona for a contemporary and in-progress example.

Maybe a generation ship needs to have some sort of 'cathedral-in-the-sky' religion connotation in order for us to commit to building it. Sounds like an interesting idea for a sci-fi plot!

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