Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 210 posts

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#81

Post by chipotle_coyote »

detaro wrote: post #74
troymc wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got a good chuckle out of the sentence: "Then they turned to the fire prevention system. Smoke now channels upward through chimneys, in accordance with the laws of physics."

Yeah, some politician got some "duh, stupid engineers" points out of that sentence. Completely ignoring the fact that the original design also pulled smoke down and was considered to be fine. Since these systems are active and suck the smoke out up or down doesn't matter all that much.

From the third paragraph: "Smoke evacuation canals designed to suck out smoke and replace it with fresh air failed to do either. In an actual fire, the inspectors determined, the main smoke vent might well implode." Assuming the inspectors were correct, the original design, at least as implemented, didn't work.

While the "in accordance with the laws of physics" may be overly catty, a bit of searching around suggests that smoke evacuation dampers are generally placed on the ceiling, and it's not unreasonable to think that's because, well, smoke rises, isn't it?

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#82

Post by germanier »

this_user wrote: post #73
germanier wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concert hall they refer to is the Elbphilharmonie which tripled its costs and construction time.

Costs for the tax payer are actually more than seven times (789M EUR) the original estimate at the time construction began (114M EUR in 2007). The initial estimate in 2005 was even lower, foreseeing costs of below 100M for the tax payer with donations supposed to cover the difference.

Thanks, somehow I had the wrong number remembered.

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#83

Post by stffndtz »

I am a german living in Berlin - and let me tell you, I feel deeply ashamed. Not because I am german, but because I have the impression that a lot of people involved, especially our once-so-admired former mayor Klaus Wowereit, are obsessed with money, and got caught in a swamp of corruption and were misleading the public.

A year ago or so, it turned out that the folks responsible for all the mess (none of the board of course) we not to be found, because they were supporting a system were a subcontractor could hire another subcontractor and so forth, making it impossible for anyone to get a grip on what is going on. And that is not what I would expect from a billion dollar project run by some of the most trusted politicians and executives in our country.

I flew home from Budapest a couple of weeks ago, and I was surprised to see that we were using the actual airstrip of BER. The flight was supposed to go to SXF (Berlin Schönefeld), but instead we landed on the new airstrip, driving by the not-yet-finished new airport. Can anyone tell me why?

There's more to it though - starting with corruption [1] and going all the way to REBULDING the whole thing [2].

I'll stop here now - but I hope that there will be a lot more of critique towards those who made this a completely embarassing desaster.

[sorry guys, links are in german. I'll try to find english ones] [1] http://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/berlin-schoenefeld-korrupt... [2] http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/acht-milliarden-euro-b...

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#84

Post by wahsd »

germanier wrote: post #10

They seem to completely miss the story about Imtech's involvement that broke this week which sheds some lights on this catastrophe and is a tale of corruption: http://www.zeit.de/2015/29/imtech-flughafen-berlin-ber-verzo... Unfortunately I'm unable to find an English-language article on that at all. There is only this Imtech response: http://imtech.com/EN/corporate/Newsroom/Highlights/Imtech-re...

Holy crap, that Zeit article is horribly written.

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#85

Post by goodcanadian »

koenigdavidmj wrote: post #45
hvs wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Denver still has the issue that it's a 20 mile drive from downtown out of some misguided belief that the city was just going to instantly grow out to it.

When you build an airport near the city, it becomes impossible to expand. San Diego is a good example of this, a single-runway airport that's surrounded by the bay, I-5, the Marine Corps Recruit Depot, and a residential neighborhood. It's running near capacity and impossible to expand. There's simply nowhere to go.

Tijuana!

Actually, I thought it was just a proposal to link the airport with a foot bridge to the U.S., but it sounds like it is already under construction:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_Border_Xpress http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/feb/16/skybrid...

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#86

Post by dugmartin »

ubernostrum wrote: post #49
raverbashing wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's for the Amateurs, Professionals do a whole World Cup

And to get into the hall of fame, you do an Olympics.

And to add a gold seal to your hall of fame certificate do an Olympics in Massachusetts.

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#88

Post by germanier »

stffndtz wrote: post #83

I am a german living in Berlin - and let me tell you, I feel deeply ashamed. Not because I am german, but because I have the impression that a lot of people involved, especially our once-so-admired former mayor Klaus Wowereit, are obsessed with money, and got caught in a swamp of corruption and were misleading the public. A year ago or so, it turned out that the folks responsible for all the mess (none of the board o…

> I was surprised to see that we were using the actual airstrip of BER. The flight was supposed to go to SXF (Berlin Schönefeld), but instead we landed on the new airstrip, driving by the not-yet-finished new airport. Can anyone tell me why?

They repurposed the south airstrip of SXF as the north airstrip of BER. As the north airstrip of SXF was dismantled for a highway this is the only remaining airstrip at SXF. For BER they built another additional one.

Here's a map: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Karte-_F...

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#89

Post by adrianb »

masklinn wrote: post #19
nsns wrote: post #8

But is it only BER? As mentioned int the article - what about Stuttgart 21 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuttgart_21 ) etc.? It is possible that these sites exist as new financial "loopholes", transferring tax-money from the government to private contractors without much oversight.

Stuttgart 21 is mentioned in the article, as well as an unnamed concert hall in Hamburg.

Probably this concert hall in Hamburg... terribly over-budget and late https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbe_Philharmonic_Hall

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#90

Post by mrich »

schoen wrote: post #79

When I last visited Berlin, I heard a joke about the airport's problems that I thought was very funny: "Niemand hat die Absicht, einen Flughafen zu errichten!" ('Nobody has the intention to build an airport!') Context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Wall#Construction_begin...

The other popular joke, after all these years and billions spent: "Let's just move Berlin to a functioning airport"
Post reply on HN