How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment • Hacker News Board

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#21

Post by germanier » Thu, Jul 23, 2015, 4:03 PM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #19

nsns wrote: post #8

But is it only BER? As mentioned int the article - what about Stuttgart 21 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuttgart_21 ) etc.? It is possible that these sites exist as new financial "loopholes", transferring tax-money from the government to private contractors without much oversight.

Stuttgart 21 is mentioned in the article, as well as an unnamed concert hall in Hamburg.

The concert hall they refer to is the Elbphilharmonie which tripled its costs and construction time.

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#22

Post by Jean-Philipe » Thu, Jul 23, 2015, 4:04 PM UTC

As somebody from Berlin, I'm always happy when my hometown is on HN! Makes me feel proud.

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#23

Post by calbear81 » Thu, Jul 23, 2015, 4:05 PM UTC

strictnein wrote: post #14

hvs wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Denver still has the issue that it's a 20 mile drive from downtown out of some misguided belief that the city was just going to instantly grow out to it.

And all the crazy artwork. The conspiracy theorists go nuts over it. http://mysteryoftheiniquity.com/2011/03/20/denver-internatio...

I was really intrigued by the comment about how the Queen of England bought property near the airport which is apparently proof that the United States has never been an independent country but a pawn of good ol' England.

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#24

Post by danvasquez29 » Thu, Jul 23, 2015, 4:06 PM UTC

coldcode wrote: post #2

Building an airport always is. Often it takes more money and a few decades to appreciate it. D/FW airport was a nightmare when it was built but it's pretty nice today. Denver's airport had tons of issues as well. Then again this seems on a much higher level of disaster, but should be familiar to anyone building large government software systems.

In my opinion Denver is a shitshow and my least favorite airport to fly into. I actively avoid layovers there.

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#25

Post by codeshaman » Thu, Jul 23, 2015, 4:06 PM UTC

Bribe the inspectors and open up on time - then somehow patch the problem later. Everyone wins. That's what they would do in a lot of places in the world.

If a German airport, with a huge budget, has 150.000 defects of which 85k are serious, then what about airports in other countries, which don't make use of the world-famous german high quality standards ?

What about airports in countries were things are solved with a bribe, a handshake and an evil smile ?

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#26

Post by ghshephard » Thu, Jul 23, 2015, 4:09 PM UTC

I realize that higher standards of fire and other safety measures make these systems more complicated, but you would think that with all the technology we have today for planning, engineering, communication, documentation, modeling and simulation - that these types of fiascos would become rarer and rarer.

I wonder if anyone has looked at large scale projects like these over the last 100 years and determined what implications (if any) technology has had in reducing these issues.

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#27

Post by wycx » Thu, Jul 23, 2015, 4:09 PM UTC

nsns wrote: post #8

But is it only BER? As mentioned int the article - what about Stuttgart 21 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuttgart_21 ) etc.? It is possible that these sites exist as new financial "loopholes", transferring tax-money from the government to private contractors without much oversight.

Here in Australia we have found even more egregious ways of transferring money for failed transport infrastructure:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_West_Link,_Melbourne

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#28

Post by coob » Thu, Jul 23, 2015, 4:10 PM UTC

c_lebesgue wrote: post #12

CurtHagenlocher wrote: post #4

"At the very moment Merkel and her allies are hectoring the Greeks about their profligacy, the airport’s cost, borne by taxpayers, has tripled to €5.4 billion." So, which country does Germany want to borrow money from in order to cover the wasteful spending?

German EUR bonds have the second lowest yields globally, with Switzerland being the leader. Also their ratings are higher than f. eg. the US bonds. So the German government does not really have to worry about borrowing money.

Japan's are lower than Germany's.

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#29

Post by slowmotiony » Thu, Jul 23, 2015, 4:11 PM UTC

codeshaman wrote: post #25

Bribe the inspectors and open up on time - then somehow patch the problem later. Everyone wins. That's what they would do in a lot of places in the world. If a German airport, with a huge budget, has 150.000 defects of which 85k are serious, then what about airports in other countries, which don't make use of the world-famous german high quality standards ? What about airports in countries were things are solved with…

World-famous german high quality standards were a thing fifty years ago, from my experience this is often not the case any more.

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#30

Post by jandrese » Thu, Jul 23, 2015, 4:12 PM UTC

This is exactly what you expect to happen when you're redesigning the building in the middle of construction. If the project manager can't say no then it's pretty much guaranteed to be a disaster.

On the plus side, it seems like they've finally found someone competent to fix the mess and move the project forward.