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How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

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Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#11

Post by ramidarigaz »

hvs wrote: post #7
coldcode wrote: post #2

Building an airport always is. Often it takes more money and a few decades to appreciate it. D/FW airport was a nightmare when it was built but it's pretty nice today. Denver's airport had tons of issues as well. Then again this seems on a much higher level of disaster, but should be familiar to anyone building large government software systems.

Denver still has the issue that it's a 20 mile drive from downtown out of some misguided belief that the city was just going to instantly grow out to it.

That seems to be slooowwwwwwly improving, but honestly the biggest improvement for me will be the light rail from downtown.

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#12

Post by c_lebesgue »

CurtHagenlocher wrote: post #4

"At the very moment Merkel and her allies are hectoring the Greeks about their profligacy, the airport’s cost, borne by taxpayers, has tripled to €5.4 billion." So, which country does Germany want to borrow money from in order to cover the wasteful spending?

German EUR bonds have the second lowest yields globally, with Switzerland being the leader. Also their ratings are higher than f. eg. the US bonds. So the German government does not really have to worry about borrowing money.

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#13

Post by strictnein »

coldcode wrote: post #2

Building an airport always is. Often it takes more money and a few decades to appreciate it. D/FW airport was a nightmare when it was built but it's pretty nice today. Denver's airport had tons of issues as well. Then again this seems on a much higher level of disaster, but should be familiar to anyone building large government software systems.

Not a fan of DFW's terminal setup and roads. All that space and that tangle of off-ramps and on-ramps and bridges is the best they could do?

Satellite shot: https://goo.gl/peXr25

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#14

Post by strictnein »

hvs wrote: post #7
coldcode wrote: post #2

Building an airport always is. Often it takes more money and a few decades to appreciate it. D/FW airport was a nightmare when it was built but it's pretty nice today. Denver's airport had tons of issues as well. Then again this seems on a much higher level of disaster, but should be familiar to anyone building large government software systems.

Denver still has the issue that it's a 20 mile drive from downtown out of some misguided belief that the city was just going to instantly grow out to it.

And all the crazy artwork. The conspiracy theorists go nuts over it.

http://mysteryoftheiniquity.com/2011/03/20/denver-internatio...

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#15

Post by bluecalm »

There is a joke in my country (Poland) about every little town needing:

-an airport

-an aquapark

-a huge sport stadion

All of them as a way to transfer some state/town money to political cronies. The sad part is that some of those make sense as an infrastructure improvement (most doesn't though, at least here) so it's easier to sell the idea to people. The way the business is done is to just pay 30%-50% more than it should cost and pocket the difference.

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#16

Post by zzalpha »

hvs wrote: post #7
coldcode wrote: post #2

Building an airport always is. Often it takes more money and a few decades to appreciate it. D/FW airport was a nightmare when it was built but it's pretty nice today. Denver's airport had tons of issues as well. Then again this seems on a much higher level of disaster, but should be familiar to anyone building large government software systems.

Denver still has the issue that it's a 20 mile drive from downtown out of some misguided belief that the city was just going to instantly grow out to it.

At least they're finally building a light rail link to downtown Denver...

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#17

Post by vonmoltke »

strictnein wrote: post #13
coldcode wrote: post #2

Building an airport always is. Often it takes more money and a few decades to appreciate it. D/FW airport was a nightmare when it was built but it's pretty nice today. Denver's airport had tons of issues as well. Then again this seems on a much higher level of disaster, but should be familiar to anyone building large government software systems.

Not a fan of DFW's terminal setup and roads. All that space and that tangle of off-ramps and on-ramps and bridges is the best they could do? Satellite shot: https://goo.gl/peXr25

I think one of the key problems with the overall layout was the desire to run a toll road that connects TX-183 to the northern highways through the airport, and to use this road as the two entrances.

They still could have designed the individual terminal layouts better though, as the road and garage layout of Terminal D shows.

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#18

Post by krschultz »

hvs wrote: post #7
coldcode wrote: post #2

Building an airport always is. Often it takes more money and a few decades to appreciate it. D/FW airport was a nightmare when it was built but it's pretty nice today. Denver's airport had tons of issues as well. Then again this seems on a much higher level of disaster, but should be familiar to anyone building large government software systems.

Denver still has the issue that it's a 20 mile drive from downtown out of some misguided belief that the city was just going to instantly grow out to it.

Honestly it's a PITA when you fly, but how often do you fly? I'd rather the airport be far from downtown than have the approach/departure routes right over populated neighborhoods. That gets really annoying really quickly.

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#19

Post by masklinn »

nsns wrote: post #8

But is it only BER? As mentioned int the article - what about Stuttgart 21 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuttgart_21 ) etc.? It is possible that these sites exist as new financial "loopholes", transferring tax-money from the government to private contractors without much oversight.

Stuttgart 21 is mentioned in the article, as well as an unnamed concert hall in Hamburg.

Re: How Berlin’s Futuristic Airport Became a $6B Embarrassment

#20

Post by psykovsky »

c_lebesgue wrote: post #12
CurtHagenlocher wrote: post #4

"At the very moment Merkel and her allies are hectoring the Greeks about their profligacy, the airport’s cost, borne by taxpayers, has tripled to €5.4 billion." So, which country does Germany want to borrow money from in order to cover the wasteful spending?

German EUR bonds have the second lowest yields globally, with Switzerland being the leader. Also their ratings are higher than f. eg. the US bonds. So the German government does not really have to worry about borrowing money.

For now. Things change.
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