Live data from Hacker News

How Apple Influenced The Labels To Shut Down My Music Streaming Startup

medium.com

61–70 of 100 posts

Re: How Apple Influenced The Labels To Shut Down My Music Streaming Startup

#61
"We had 50M monthly active users and 250M searches every month. Steve Jobs told the labels, including Warner Music, to sue us. So they did and for $40B. How do I know? I know because Steve Jobs gave them a list of music streaming sites that were competitive threats to iTunes, and told them to take care of it."

Citation needed. Or did I miss it amongst the self-aggrandizing?

Re: How Apple Influenced The Labels To Shut Down My Music Streaming Startup

#62

"We had 50M monthly active users and 250M searches every month. Steve Jobs told the labels, including Warner Music, to sue us. So they did and for $40B. How do I know? I know because Steve Jobs gave them a list of music streaming sites that were competitive threats to iTunes, and told them to take care of it." Citation needed. Or did I miss it amongst the self-aggrandizing?

He named an engineer at Warner Music as his source.

Re: How Apple Influenced The Labels To Shut Down My Music Streaming Startup

#63

" If I could compile and debug kernel issues along with X11 X86Config files with assistance from a good friend at the QNX-based Caprica Internet in LA and the 2-person Slackware “helpdesk” on the East Coast every few days then I’d be able to continue to test NCSA webserver over SLIP and PPP to deliver electronic faxes with a web interface for the Mosaic Browser for a sugar company in Marin County to save them a few t…

Maybe modern Xorg config files are not rocket science, but surely you remember the days of manually listing video modes, and trying endless combinations of video drivers. Hell I think you even needed to add special directives to get three button mice to work properly. Fortunately those days are gone, but you definitely could debug xf86 config files.

It wasn't so much debugging as it was laying our your video card and monitor manual, listing the config file and making sure all the little numbers match up.

Re: How Apple Influenced The Labels To Shut Down My Music Streaming Startup

#64
post #45

They were crawling the web for mp3s the same way that Google does. Though admittedly Google hides the mp3s much better nowadays then they used to. And the web is way more balkanized into all these corporate walled gardens so there are fewer free roaming mp3s on random websites as there used to be. But technically it was a search engine the same as Google. It always bothers me that this area of the law seems to be ent…

I was under the impression that the UI was pretty incidental in most judges' interpretations that platforms used mainly to locate copyrighted material were on shakier ground than platforms which incidentally, and despite ostensibly significant efforts on the part of developers to limit it, could be used to locate copyright material. It's not like Google doesn't get hit by content-provider lawsuits either, it's just t…

Do judges count how it is intended to be used? If we are counting only use and not intended use, then this just means that if a bunch of pirates (or worse) are your initial users then you are in the wrong. That sounds absurd (though I could see a lot of people, in tech and otherwise, wanting to make Tor illegal because of one of its predominant uses). But if it is based on intention, it still doesn't differentiate between the technology being intended for legal use that may not different from illegal use, which is no less absurd. Consider a tool that allows pushing apps onto phones. It is intended primarily to allow apps to be pushed, but the tool has no way to check if the user pushing the app onto the phone has the legal right to push the app and the legal right to push software onto the phone in question.

It seems that making this a legal minefield that requires an existing well funded legal department is nothing short of regulatory capture.

Re: How Apple Influenced The Labels To Shut Down My Music Streaming Startup

#65
post #58
post #45

They were crawling the web for mp3s the same way that Google does. Though admittedly Google hides the mp3s much better nowadays then they used to. And the web is way more balkanized into all these corporate walled gardens so there are fewer free roaming mp3s on random websites as there used to be. But technically it was a search engine the same as Google. It always bothers me that this area of the law seems to be ent…

The UI bit is a red herring. The question is the developers' motivation and what actions they encourage a user to take. Design of the UI may be one piece of evidence of that motivation among others.

Even if you can show the intention of the developer was to aid the user in taking a certain action, if that action can be legal in some cases, how can that be held against the developer?

Is a gun scope illegal because it helps a shooter hit their targets where sometimes shooting those targets is an illegal action? Should torrenting be banned because it is often used to transfer illegal files even though there are a lot of legal files in use as well?

Re: How Apple Influenced The Labels To Shut Down My Music Streaming Startup

#66
post #45

They were crawling the web for mp3s the same way that Google does. Though admittedly Google hides the mp3s much better nowadays then they used to. And the web is way more balkanized into all these corporate walled gardens so there are fewer free roaming mp3s on random websites as there used to be. But technically it was a search engine the same as Google. It always bothers me that this area of the law seems to be ent…

I was under the impression that the UI was pretty incidental in most judges' interpretations that platforms used mainly to locate copyrighted material were on shakier ground than platforms which incidentally, and despite ostensibly significant efforts on the part of developers to limit it, could be used to locate copyright material. It's not like Google doesn't get hit by content-provider lawsuits either, it's just t…

that's the thing with judges and jury. (despite what TV show with precedence and such)

nobody knows!

so the law is only slightly just for whoever has the money to keep appealing decisions until they find one they like (and the opponent is out of money to appeal further).

Re: How Apple Influenced The Labels To Shut Down My Music Streaming Startup

#67
Apple knows that they can't compete in the market, so they try to compete in the courtroom instead. It's the same reason they tried suing Samsung for such frivolous stuff as "icons with rounded rectangles" and "over-scroll rubber banding".

That said, HN is pretty much an echo chamber of Apple fans, so you're unlikely to get many here to admit that they do anything wrong.

Re: How Apple Influenced The Labels To Shut Down My Music Streaming Startup

#68

"We had 50M monthly active users and 250M searches every month. Steve Jobs told the labels, including Warner Music, to sue us. So they did and for $40B. How do I know? I know because Steve Jobs gave them a list of music streaming sites that were competitive threats to iTunes, and told them to take care of it." Citation needed. Or did I miss it amongst the self-aggrandizing?

He named an engineer at Warner Music as his source.

The "engineer" being Howie Singer, the CTO of Warner Music.

Re: How Apple Influenced The Labels To Shut Down My Music Streaming Startup

#69

Can somebody with background on the law please explain how this is or isn't an anti-competitive practice? i.e., Warner Bros sues Apple's rival at Apple's request.

Well, reading the article, this guy had an illegal business finding illegal music on the internet for people to play for free they didn't have rights to. A label sued him. The end.

Apple doesn't have much to do with it. They had a legal music business and negotiated to pay the labels, as they should, since the labels own the music rights. They and the labels correctly figured out their competitors were illegal, and they sued.

Should you not be able to sue someone doing something illegal just because they are in the same business as you?

Re: How Apple Influenced The Labels To Shut Down My Music Streaming Startup

#70
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UI bit is a red herring. The question is the developers' motivation and what actions they encourage a user to take. Design of the UI may be one piece of evidence of that motivation among others.

Even if you can show the intention of the developer was to aid the user in taking a certain action, if that action can be legal in some cases, how can that be held against the developer? Is a gun scope illegal because it helps a shooter hit their targets where sometimes shooting those targets is an illegal action? Should torrenting be banned because it is often used to transfer illegal files even though there are a l…

The beauty of law being a human institution is you get to look past such fig leaves. Here, the fact that the author billed SeeqPod as a "streaming music startup" tells you all you need to know about whether his service just incidentally facilitated copyright infringement, or was designed to profit from its users' copyright infringement on a mass scale.
Post reply on HN