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Why your self-driving car won’t have a steering wheel

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Why your self-driving car won’t have a steering wheel

#41
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd suspect we are further away from self-driving, offroad cars. At least for roads the cars have a set path to follow, with choices at intersections.

Ok how about navigating into my garage? Maybe I want extra space on the left this time?

Most self-driving cars won't be stored in our garages, because we won't own them. That's one of their big advantages.

Re: Why your self-driving car won’t have a steering wheel

#42

What if I want a car I can choose to drive occasionally because I like driving? Will I have to buy a manual and a self-drive? (Although to be fair, these self-driving cars would probably suck to drive since they are not designed for driver pleasure)

Eventually the statistics will make their way to the lawmakers and the "if it saves just one life" logic will put an end to your driving hobby. It's inevitable.

This will eventually extend to anything fun that humans do today. Any time a machine is shown to be more competent than a human at something, humans will no longer be allowed to engage in that activity.

Re: Why your self-driving car won’t have a steering wheel

#43
post #37

> Research that Stanford has done shows that drivers resuming control from Level 3 vehicles functioning in autonomous mode take 10 seconds just to attain the level of ability that a drunk driver possesses. And to get back to full driving competence takes 60 seconds. Wouldn't this also hold true for airline pilots? How quickly can they resume control of a plane when something goes amiss?

My understanding is that airline pilots only use autopilot when at cruising altitude. At those heights they have several minutes to take over and fix a problem before crashing.

Automatic landing systems are mandatory for category III ILS approaches. You can search for ILS IIIb on YouTube to find examples of landings where pilots can basically see nothing until they are seconds from the ground.

Re: Why your self-driving car won’t have a steering wheel

#44
post #37

> Research that Stanford has done shows that drivers resuming control from Level 3 vehicles functioning in autonomous mode take 10 seconds just to attain the level of ability that a drunk driver possesses. And to get back to full driving competence takes 60 seconds. Wouldn't this also hold true for airline pilots? How quickly can they resume control of a plane when something goes amiss?

My understanding is that airline pilots only use autopilot when at cruising altitude. At those heights they have several minutes to take over and fix a problem before crashing.

Well, some aircraft also have Autoland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoland)

If a malfunction happens during landing, you definitely don't have several minutes to rectify it.

Re: Why your self-driving car won’t have a steering wheel

#45
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok how about navigating into my garage? Maybe I want extra space on the left this time?

Most self-driving cars won't be stored in our garages, because we won't own them. That's one of their big advantages.

I might want to back it up just tight at the Ikea dock to pick something up. Don't let "garage" get in the way of thinking of why you might need to take over manual steering. As amply exemplified above, single lane situation with two way traffic.

Re: Why your self-driving car won’t have a steering wheel

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars used to have https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiller for direction control. About forgetting how to steer, take a look at that video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzDaBzBlL0 discussion here http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/riding-an-inverted-bike/

That's a neat video on reversed steering.

Yeah, it was pretty funny to see, even though I left frustrated not having one to try.

Re: Why your self-driving car won’t have a steering wheel

#48
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd suspect we are further away from self-driving, offroad cars. At least for roads the cars have a set path to follow, with choices at intersections.

Ok how about navigating into my garage? Maybe I want extra space on the left this time?

I would be surprised if there is no low-speed manual maneuverability with a joystick or somesuch.

Re: Why your self-driving car won’t have a steering wheel

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are engaging in a false analogy here. Comparing a grill to an oven is like comparing a passenger car to a panel truck: they are in the same broad class of thing but serve different purposes. A better analogy would be that of a grill that can use gas or charcoal as the fuel; different means to the same purpose.

Yes, I am engaging in a false analogy. My intention was to humorously showcase specialized tools at a much further level of differentiation. And a passenger car is as different from a panel (flatbed) truck as a hand-driven gasoline car is from a solar-powered self-driving car. I was attempting to highlight that these tools have nearly equivalent purposes, but the educated consumer would have a definite preference for…

> And a passenger car is as different from a panel (flatbed) truck as a hand-driven gasoline car is from a solar-powered self-driving car.

I disagree. The function of a panel truck is the transport of bulky and heavy materials. The function of a passenger car is the transport of people with fairly small amounts of materials. Changing the power plant or control system does not change these fundamental functions or fundamental design decisions that go into the system as a whole.

> I was attempting to highlight that these tools have nearly equivalent purposes

They don't, just like a passenger car and panel truck do not have nearly equivalent purposes. Yes, an oven and a grill both cook food. A passenger car and a panel truck both move people and items. Each of these is specialized to cover a certain subset of the problem space within those areas, though. Making one better at covering its problem space does not change what it fundamentally is, and self-driving vehicles are just an improvement in covering the existing problem space.

Re: Why your self-driving car won’t have a steering wheel

#50

> Research that Stanford has done shows that drivers resuming control from Level 3 vehicles functioning in autonomous mode take 10 seconds just to attain the level of ability that a drunk driver possesses. And to get back to full driving competence takes 60 seconds. Wouldn't this also hold true for airline pilots? How quickly can they resume control of a plane when something goes amiss?

There tends to be a substantial difference between scanning the instruments actively looking for trouble vs your typical passenger watching movies, reading facebook, talking on the phone.

A good analogy would be an onsite ops team optimistically has nothing to do all shift but they can respond extremely quickly when it becomes necessary, whereas if I get an emergency phone call in the middle of the night its going to be at least a minute of WTF before I can settle down and get to work.

The biggest problem I have with no way to drive the car is parking. "HAL, grannies knee is hurting her, that being the whole point of driving her to physical therapy today, I insist we park illegally at the entrance door for 5, well, 30 seconds while she gets out, then and only then we will park for real about 1000 feet away" "Thank you HAL but I don't care what google maps says, the building has been remodeled since your data was downloaded 5 years ago and the entrance is now on the other side of the building so (insert jedi wave) you will park on the other side of the building" "HAL you may not have noticed but that urban parking spot is full of broken glass bottles so you park over there instead, at least as long as I'm paying your repair bills when you pay your own bills by driving for Uber then you can pop your tires whenever you want" "Yes HAL I know we're going to store XYZ at the mall, but thats just my first stop and I want you to park at store ABC because its my last stop so I know %^&# well that google calendar says I'm going to store XYZ and if you ever want your oil changed again you will park at store ABC exactly as I tell you" "Yes HAL the loading zone is illegal to park in, but think about it for a second, I want to park in the loading zone because I'm loading new furniture into the trunk" "HAL I'm not even going to try to explain the concept of a drive thru window at my bank, you just let me navigate OK?" "HAL this is called the Concerts In The Park event because its a music concert in the park, and you will park in that grass field right where the helpful parking attendant is waving" (edited to point out that all of these situations are predictable well over a minute in advance, or will be "argued" with the car while its in Park mode)

(And edited to note that the average drunk driver is a very safe driver and drives hundreds, even thousands of times between arrests or crashes ... there exist high functioning alcoholics who basically haven't driven sober in a decade or so ... all you need to achieve is better than the average teen, perhaps, which isn't a terribly high achievement, and that may only require a small fraction of a second to get up to speed. Or during a software crash all you need to do is drive better than a crashed computer, which likely isn't very challenging even for a drunk or a teen)

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