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Startup founder reportedly jumped to her death from the top of NYC rooftop bar

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Re: Startup founder reportedly jumped to her death from the top of NYC rooftop bar

#31
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we need to work on removing the stigma around general therapy. I have not personally seen a therapist, but of those I know who have, they almost always talk of it being a positive experience. In some cases, they have even advocated semi-regular therapy as a general health regimen, much like you might see a dentist or doctor regularly for checkups.

Part of the stigma is the sheer number of well-meaning but unhelpful therapists. I went to several free and religious counselors when I was young, and had several worthless experiences. Most of them just wanted to hear what I had to say, and had no advice, as though hearing myself talk about my problems would solve them automatically. A few gave suggestions but not things that would realistically help (Maybe you shou…

There's a lot to unpack here... But let me touch on a couple of the points you raise - from the perspective of a trained, but non-practicing therapist.

First of all, there are lots of terrible therapists out there. Especially of the 'religious counsellor' variety (I'm shuddering at the phrase). I had a similar negative experience with a school counsellor who had an academic degree in psychology (which involves zero client hours) and had self appointed herself as a therapist in the educational context.

So choosing the right therapist is key. Well trained therapists with good experience are not free. Someone is going to have to pay for what is an expensive and highly educated professional service (for example it can take up to a decade to become a clinical psychologist here in Ireland). That might be government, charity, or client payment - or it might be that some excellent therapists offer a portion of their time at a reduced rate; but it's extremely unlikely that you'll get good therapy for free.

To address your second point however, I have to emphasise that the goal of therapy is not to give advice. It's explicitly antithetical to most schools of psychotherapy / counselling. There are many reasons for this - the therapist is there to be the one person in your life who doesn't evaluate you, people respond negatively to advice (with 'reactance') even when they desire it, advice isn't necessarily generalisable. But overall, if you're looking for advice you need to talk to a domain expert - e.g.: someone whose doing the job you'd like. If you're going through emotional difficulties, counter-intuitively the last thing that will help is concrete advice.

What the research shows is effective are things like the relationship between therapist and client, trust, tailored interventions (e.g.: CBT for PTSD or OCD) etc.

If you're ever interested in resuming therapy, I'd recommend reading more into how the different kinds of therapy differ. It sounds like some form of CBT might be useful for you - but above all the important thing is to work with a professional whose a good personal match for you. Picking a therapist is selecting someone with whom you'll be forming an intimate relationship, and compatibility is vital. So I'd encourage shopping around.

Re: Startup founder reportedly jumped to her death from the top of NYC rooftop bar

#32
As a founder who struggles with severe depression, one of the few bits of advice that I remember when personally in a dark place is from a physician that had met with thousands of suicidal patients. He said:

"I've never had a patient who survived (suicidal thinking) and later wished that they had killed themselves."

Sorry I couldn't find the quote and may be paraphrasing a bit, I share this because this personal mantra has kept me from the ledge when my thoughts were otherwise debilitating.

Re: Startup founder reportedly jumped to her death from the top of NYC rooftop bar

#33

wtf is going on? seriously, why are these startup founders killing themselves? Why is it that they can't stop and walk away when what you are doing is not making you happy? Why do you put someone who is well off enough to throw you some pocket change above your own livelihood and your life? I just don't get it. >After she jumped, some customers continued to drink at the swanky bar ugh.

Depression is a disorder, it's not people who just felt a bit sad and then killed themselves because they didn't have their priorities strait.

Re: Startup founder reportedly jumped to her death from the top of NYC rooftop bar

#34
post #22

Just a friendly reminder that no matter how bad your startup is doing, or how much money you owe to who, or how much shame you feel.. life is worth a lot more than money. You can always earn more money, but you can't come back from the dead[0] [0] - Provable with current scientific tools

Suicide is not chosen; it happens when pain exceeds resources for coping with pain. http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/

Well yes. We know. That's why it's tragic, horrible, and evil when someone is in such pain that they need to commit suicide. It's a blow for Pain over Joy, and for Despair over Hope, and a life destroyed to make that blow permanent.

Re: Startup founder reportedly jumped to her death from the top of NYC rooftop bar

#35

wtf is going on? seriously, why are these startup founders killing themselves? Why is it that they can't stop and walk away when what you are doing is not making you happy? Why do you put someone who is well off enough to throw you some pocket change above your own livelihood and your life? I just don't get it. >After she jumped, some customers continued to drink at the swanky bar ugh.

The first question that comes to my mind when I hear about a startup death is: how much sleep did she get a night? How much did she drink on a regular basis? What drugs did she do on a regular basis? How much stress was she under on a regular basis? Working hard, partying hard, never sleeping and a crushing amount of stress is a recipe for death and dysfunction.

Re: Startup founder reportedly jumped to her death from the top of NYC rooftop bar

#36

wtf is going on? seriously, why are these startup founders killing themselves? Why is it that they can't stop and walk away when what you are doing is not making you happy? Why do you put someone who is well off enough to throw you some pocket change above your own livelihood and your life? I just don't get it. >After she jumped, some customers continued to drink at the swanky bar ugh.

>seriously, why are these startup founders killing themselves?

If I may be a politicizing dick, severe inequality means that seemingly small failures or successes can have massive, oversized influence on the course of someone's life, and also means that we socialize people, from youth, to take each possible failure or success that much more seriously, as that much more determining of their overall life course and meaning in the world.

It runs directly contrary to imbuing resilience in people, and in society.

Anxiety disorders and suicides are the price of having a society and a world in which increasingly many people have everything on the line, at every step, all the time.

Re: Startup founder reportedly jumped to her death from the top of NYC rooftop bar

#37
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the stigma is the sheer number of well-meaning but unhelpful therapists. I went to several free and religious counselors when I was young, and had several worthless experiences. Most of them just wanted to hear what I had to say, and had no advice, as though hearing myself talk about my problems would solve them automatically. A few gave suggestions but not things that would realistically help (Maybe you shou…

There's a lot to unpack here... But let me touch on a couple of the points you raise - from the perspective of a trained, but non-practicing therapist. First of all, there are lots of terrible therapists out there. Especially of the 'religious counsellor' variety (I'm shuddering at the phrase). I had a similar negative experience with a school counsellor who had an academic degree in psychology (which involves zero c…

[deleted]

Re: Startup founder reportedly jumped to her death from the top of NYC rooftop bar

#38
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Also, it's not even just about money, it's about success and recognition and accepting yourself, win or fail.

Suicide is also about more than just a failed startup. You don't kill yourself because your company failed; there were likely other issues such as depression that she was unable to overcome, though a struggling business doesn't help. If you're depressed, accepting yourself is hard even if you're winning.

Yes, depression is usually not about the money, but personal issues. My hardest days personally have been when things were going well and best were when I was unable to keep the lights on/pay bills. When the business was almost failing I had my significant other with me 24/7. After I ruined the most important relationship in my life, the business improved dramatically and I was mentally in a far worse place.

I would happily leave the company to get her back or undo losing her. That's what people don't understand, you're an entrepreneur for the journey not the money (even if only subconsciously). Thus, people shouldn't assume there are money/ startup problems when someone is depressed.

Re: Startup founder reportedly jumped to her death from the top of NYC rooftop bar

#39
post #30
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suicide is also about more than just a failed startup. You don't kill yourself because your company failed; there were likely other issues such as depression that she was unable to overcome, though a struggling business doesn't help. If you're depressed, accepting yourself is hard even if you're winning.

In fact, winning can make it worse. When you're successful and depressed, the dissonance between your outward success and your inner self loathing/misery can be very painful. You think, all these great things are happening and I still can't be happy. I must really be a worthless, ungrateful piece of shit if I attain everything I ever dreamed of and that's still not enough for me. If this doesn't make me happy, that m…

Yes, well said, thanks. Also "Depression talk" is not you, which is difficult to internalize in the moment.

Re: Startup founder reportedly jumped to her death from the top of NYC rooftop bar

#40

What a terrible shame! From her online profiles one can clearly see that she was thoughtful, sensitive, intelligent, creative, and beautiful. Authentic & moral people like that can be difficult to find.

It is a shame. Just looking at her profiles and accomplishments you can tell she was special. Not to mention having the guts to switch from accounting to development as a woman in a male dominated industry.

May you rest in peace Faigy. I will pray for you and your family.

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