Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway • Hacker News Board

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#151

Post by freshyill » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 3:54 PM UTC

stevendhansen wrote: post #95

tombrossman wrote: post #12

Some questions for the researchers, or anyone else who thinks this was okay: 1) Were public roadways and speeds of 70mph absolutely necessary to demo this? 2) What was the plan if the trucker approaching at 70mph hadn't seen the Jeep stalled early and had to swerve or panic stop, possibly crashing and injuring themselves or others? 3) Anyone notify the Missouri State Highway Patrol about this? They may be contacting…

Calling the police on security researchers...I honestly cannot believe this is considered acceptable behavior. A much less aggressive (and thoughtful) move would be to contact the researchers directly. Wow. Back to the article, I think that this type of exploit will become more and more common as vehicles become more connected and automated. We need to know that we can trust the software and firmware running on the d…

> Calling the police on security researchers...I honestly cannot believe this is considered acceptable behavior.

But putting many lives in danger is considered acceptable behavior by security researchers? Does it actually matter that it was security researchers? Do security researchers working on banking software need to steal a million dollars in order to prove that they've found an issue? Would calling the police be acceptable in that situation?

Actual outrage is acceptable when there's actual danger. Calling the cops on a loud neighbor might not be acceptable, but calling the cops on a neighbor firing a gun in the general direction of your house certainly would be.

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#152

Post by meragrin » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 3:54 PM UTC

brandon272 wrote: post #114

stevendhansen wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling the police on security researchers...I honestly cannot believe this is considered acceptable behavior. A much less aggressive (and thoughtful) move would be to contact the researchers directly. Wow. Back to the article, I think that this type of exploit will become more and more common as vehicles become more connected and automated. We need to know that we can trust the software and firmware running on the d…

> Calling the police on security researchers...I honestly cannot believe this is considered acceptable behavior. A much less aggressive (and thoughtful) move would be to contact the researchers directly. Wow. Reminds me of people who will call the police on a loud neighbor instead of just, you know, talking to them first.

This isn't just a loud neighbor. This was a drunk loud neighbor waving a loaded gun around.

The driver was clearly distressed and they were just laughing it up.

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#153

Post by scott_karana » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 3:55 PM UTC

joncfoo7 wrote: post #143

Did anyone bother to read the full article? If so, you would find out that it was a [somewhat] controlled experiment. > To better simulate the experience of driving a vehicle while it’s being hijacked by an invisible, virtual force, Miller and Valasek refused to tell me ahead of time what kinds of attacks they planned to launch from Miller’s laptop in his house 10 miles west. > Instead, they merely assured me that th…

How in the world is "don't panic on public roads when we attack you without warning" a controlled experiment, in any sense of the word? ;)

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#154

Post by Canada » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 3:55 PM UTC

1337biz wrote: post #124

stevendhansen wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling the police on security researchers...I honestly cannot believe this is considered acceptable behavior. A much less aggressive (and thoughtful) move would be to contact the researchers directly. Wow. Back to the article, I think that this type of exploit will become more and more common as vehicles become more connected and automated. We need to know that we can trust the software and firmware running on the d…

Same here. Posts like these make me take the effort to log in just to downvote. Sad to see such a mindset to gain so much traction.

Calling the police was completely inappropriate, but downvoting the comment as a way to signal your disapproval with his action in the real world isn't helpful. The comment itself is well written, on topic, and leading to good discussion.

I agree with what others have already said: Since nobody was actually hurt he should have contacted the researchers to make his point.

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#155

Post by cousin_it » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 3:56 PM UTC

tombrossman wrote: post #12

Some questions for the researchers, or anyone else who thinks this was okay: 1) Were public roadways and speeds of 70mph absolutely necessary to demo this? 2) What was the plan if the trucker approaching at 70mph hadn't seen the Jeep stalled early and had to swerve or panic stop, possibly crashing and injuring themselves or others? 3) Anyone notify the Missouri State Highway Patrol about this? They may be contacting…

Feynman had a nice story where he figured out a way to crack many of the safes in Los Alamos, then dutifully reported his method to some bigshot general. The general said "hmm interesting, thank you very much", and banned Feynman from entering rooms with safes or something. The safes stayed as unsafe as ever.

You remind me of that general. You should be hanging out on Catch The Hacker News, not Hacker News.

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#156

Post by Aldo_MX » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 3:56 PM UTC

stevendhansen wrote: post #95

tombrossman wrote: post #12

Some questions for the researchers, or anyone else who thinks this was okay: 1) Were public roadways and speeds of 70mph absolutely necessary to demo this? 2) What was the plan if the trucker approaching at 70mph hadn't seen the Jeep stalled early and had to swerve or panic stop, possibly crashing and injuring themselves or others? 3) Anyone notify the Missouri State Highway Patrol about this? They may be contacting…

Calling the police on security researchers...I honestly cannot believe this is considered acceptable behavior. A much less aggressive (and thoughtful) move would be to contact the researchers directly. Wow. Back to the article, I think that this type of exploit will become more and more common as vehicles become more connected and automated. We need to know that we can trust the software and firmware running on the d…

> Calling the police on security researchers...I honestly cannot believe this is considered acceptable behavior. A much less aggressive (and thoughtful) move would be to contact the researchers directly. Wow.

What would contacting the researchers achieve? They arbitrarily did the experiment in a public highway "to make the headline more shocking".

As much as I support any kind of security research, and as much as I support getting the attention of people to raise awareness, contacting the authorities was the correct move; a public highway is not a research lab without the proper permission from authorities.

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#157

Post by bluedino » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 3:57 PM UTC

>> The attacker’s PC had been wired into the vehicles’ onboard diagnostic port, a feature that normally gives repair technicians access to information about the car’s electronically controlled systems.

Is this even really considered an issue?

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#158

Post by astrodust » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 3:57 PM UTC

epochwolf wrote: post #53

geofft wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You called the cops on two security researchers and a journalist, because you disagreed with their methods and weren't sure what their plans were and what authorities they'd talked to? (And not just any cops, the cops in St. Louis, for bonus points.) Are we still on Hacker News, or is the transformation to Enablers of Traditional American Power Structure News complete?

There's plenty of safe ways to accomplish this kind of demonstration. The fact they choose to do so in a way that endangered the public is in fact criminal. Being a security researcher or journalist doesn't give you a license to put the public in physical danger.

I'm sure the police are even more ill-equipped to understand the ramifications of this demonstration and will over-react and start jailing anyone with a laptop and suspicious intent.

I can't wait for the pathetic outrage when "racial profiling" now means harassing white kids with laptops that fit the profile of hacker.

This is a matter for a company like Google to take on politically, not some beat cop in St. Louis of all places.

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#159

Post by keso_77 » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 3:58 PM UTC

tombrossman wrote: post #12

Some questions for the researchers, or anyone else who thinks this was okay: 1) Were public roadways and speeds of 70mph absolutely necessary to demo this? 2) What was the plan if the trucker approaching at 70mph hadn't seen the Jeep stalled early and had to swerve or panic stop, possibly crashing and injuring themselves or others? 3) Anyone notify the Missouri State Highway Patrol about this? They may be contacting…

Blame the messenger hey?. How about calling the cops on the company that actually put that crap tech in your car instead? To the OP: You don't have to scare me twice. I'm sporting pre 9/11 PC-hardware and now I'll be driving a pre 9/11 car. If you tell me that someone can remote control my underwear then maybe I'll have to draw the line there because I'm not buying pre 9/11 undies dammit....not yet anyway.

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#160

Post by igorgue » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 3:58 PM UTC

tombrossman wrote: post #12

Some questions for the researchers, or anyone else who thinks this was okay: 1) Were public roadways and speeds of 70mph absolutely necessary to demo this? 2) What was the plan if the trucker approaching at 70mph hadn't seen the Jeep stalled early and had to swerve or panic stop, possibly crashing and injuring themselves or others? 3) Anyone notify the Missouri State Highway Patrol about this? They may be contacting…

Oh man, I'd hate to be your neighbor.