Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 640 posts

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#121

Post by jblow »

hoopism wrote: post #86
jblow wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you understand. Anyone in the world can do this. Right now. Any time.

Anyone could shoot up a public place... should amateur researches be showing up in malls with firearms to test preparedness? This case is even worse the the one I mentioned as there is a really easy way to safely demonstrate this exploit.

If it were not demonstrated under real conditions, the car companies would just say "this was a fake test not representative of real-world conditions, isn't that true Mr. Journalist?" and the journalist would have to admit that that was true and then they would say "Under real-world conditions our cars are safe; customers have nothing to worry about."

This has been their playbook about everything for a long time so I don't know why you think it would be different in this case.

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#122

Post by brown9-2 »

daveloyall wrote: post #82

So, a HN commentator apparently called the cops on these guys after reading the Wired article. Several commentators more or less agree, arguing that performing these tests on the I-40 was criminally negligent. Stop right there. Grow some balls. These guys are elite, their demo was badass, and I've done stupider things on I-40 for no reason . And wtf you called the cops? head in hand

I agree that a third party calling the police might be overkill but "these guys are elite, their demo was badass" has to be the worst possible justification.

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#123

Post by danielweber »

stevendhansen wrote: post #95
tombrossman wrote: post #12

Some questions for the researchers, or anyone else who thinks this was okay: 1) Were public roadways and speeds of 70mph absolutely necessary to demo this? 2) What was the plan if the trucker approaching at 70mph hadn't seen the Jeep stalled early and had to swerve or panic stop, possibly crashing and injuring themselves or others? 3) Anyone notify the Missouri State Highway Patrol about this? They may be contacting…

Calling the police on security researchers...I honestly cannot believe this is considered acceptable behavior. A much less aggressive (and thoughtful) move would be to contact the researchers directly. Wow. Back to the article, I think that this type of exploit will become more and more common as vehicles become more connected and automated. We need to know that we can trust the software and firmware running on the d…

I don't know where the threshold is, but calling yourself a "security researcher" is not a blank slate to do whatever you want.

I think it's 100% OK to test on a private car on a private track.

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#124

Post by 1337biz »

stevendhansen wrote: post #95
tombrossman wrote: post #12

Some questions for the researchers, or anyone else who thinks this was okay: 1) Were public roadways and speeds of 70mph absolutely necessary to demo this? 2) What was the plan if the trucker approaching at 70mph hadn't seen the Jeep stalled early and had to swerve or panic stop, possibly crashing and injuring themselves or others? 3) Anyone notify the Missouri State Highway Patrol about this? They may be contacting…

Calling the police on security researchers...I honestly cannot believe this is considered acceptable behavior. A much less aggressive (and thoughtful) move would be to contact the researchers directly. Wow. Back to the article, I think that this type of exploit will become more and more common as vehicles become more connected and automated. We need to know that we can trust the software and firmware running on the d…

Same here. Posts like these make me take the effort to log in just to downvote. Sad to see such a mindset to gain so much traction.

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#125

Post by slantyyz »

genericuser wrote: post #47
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not gonna make the news unless the media can spin up a headline that scares people People won't pay attention until they're scared People won't demand action if they're not paying attention Nothing will happened if people don't demand action. If nothing happens the status quo (vulnerable systems) will remain. Until some bad actor (I'm sure several nations states would love that capability) gets into onStar and…

I agree they may not make news if they did this in a safe manner. However, the goal of people researching security, shouldn't be to make news. And these people while admittedly working with Chrysler to see it fixed, seem to be forgetting that. Especially since they plan to release their code, despite the fact that Chrysler has to get people to manually update their cars. "The two researchers say that even if their co…

>> I agree they may not make news if they did this in a safe manner.

Maybe, maybe not. All they need to get eyeballs is a linkbaity FUD headline with a few extra scary sentences thrown in.

It's not as if the TV news doesn't already do this with their teasers for "Is eating too much XYZ going to kill you? Find out after the commercial break" only for you to find out that the story about XYZ is overblown and poorly vetted.

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#126

Post by Miner49er »

Someone1234 wrote: post #81
feld wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You better have the Highway Patrol investigate every single person who doesn't maintain their car properly and takes it on the highway because they're causing far more risk than this demo came close to creating, IMHO. Was it a stunt? Yes. Was it life threatening? Hardly. The real risk is the early 90s Civic with a torn up clutch and bald tires swerving between lanes.

> Was it life threatening? Hardly. Uhh what? It seems you cannot go a week without reading about a pile-up on a freeway. Just last week a big-rig lost a wheel, it rolled into the on-coming lane, and drivers swerving and braking to avoid it actually caused a pile up. Stopping even on the shoulder on a freeway is considered "risky" by most police officers and many (like triple digits) have been killed while stopped in…

They decelerated a car. The brakes weren't even applied. This happens all the time on highways. It is unfortunate that it happened where there was no shoulder on the road, but if an accident did happen then I'm not so sure the researchers or journalist would be at fault.

Here's a scenario:

Let's say a person is driving a car, when their car engine fails. There's no shoulder for them to drive onto, so they are just slowly decelerating when they are rear-ended by a vehicle behind them. Would you say that the car that had a mechanical failure is at fault, or the person behind them who wasn't paying attention is at fault?

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#127

Post by maxerickson »

sfafdsdf wrote: post #119
maxerickson wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you expand a little on how calling the police about something is more or less self righteous than doing the (at least somewhat dangerous) experiment on a public highway?

It's interesting how you view this issue. If the researchers are more self-righteous than the person calling in, it justifies the latter?

No, it just makes directing that line of criticism at the caller pretty inane.

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#128

Post by meragrin »

Duhveed wrote: post #105
tombrossman wrote: post #12

Some questions for the researchers, or anyone else who thinks this was okay: 1) Were public roadways and speeds of 70mph absolutely necessary to demo this? 2) What was the plan if the trucker approaching at 70mph hadn't seen the Jeep stalled early and had to swerve or panic stop, possibly crashing and injuring themselves or others? 3) Anyone notify the Missouri State Highway Patrol about this? They may be contacting…

I was thinking about how dangerous it was while I was reading it too, but I came away far less concerned than you I guess. The deceleration on the highway was the most worrisome, but it's not even in the ballpark of common driving hazards like distracted folks on cellphones or flying debris. A crash from such a thing is unlikely and the inconvenience is pretty minimal. Even you, the busybody who called the cops becau…

They intentionally disabled a car in an area with no shoulder. They intentionally introduced a large hazard on the highway. If something happened, they would have been partly responsible. You do not just stop on the highway just because you feel like it.

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#129

Post by Raphmedia »

geofft wrote: post #46
tombrossman wrote: post #12

Some questions for the researchers, or anyone else who thinks this was okay: 1) Were public roadways and speeds of 70mph absolutely necessary to demo this? 2) What was the plan if the trucker approaching at 70mph hadn't seen the Jeep stalled early and had to swerve or panic stop, possibly crashing and injuring themselves or others? 3) Anyone notify the Missouri State Highway Patrol about this? They may be contacting…

You called the cops on two security researchers and a journalist, because you disagreed with their methods and weren't sure what their plans were and what authorities they'd talked to? (And not just any cops, the cops in St. Louis, for bonus points.) Are we still on Hacker News, or is the transformation to Enablers of Traditional American Power Structure News complete?

As much as it seem over the top, those researcher could have hurt people.

Calling the police will not have them go to jail or have their data deleted. It might (rightfully) get them a fine. It will however ensure that their next experiments are done in a safer, more legal way.

Calling the police isn't all about emergency. You can call them to talk about issues that worry you such as this one. They will take care of bringing the issue the the right entities, it's their job.

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#130

Post by 1337biz »

usefulcat wrote: post #110
stevendhansen wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling the police on security researchers...I honestly cannot believe this is considered acceptable behavior. A much less aggressive (and thoughtful) move would be to contact the researchers directly. Wow. Back to the article, I think that this type of exploit will become more and more common as vehicles become more connected and automated. We need to know that we can trust the software and firmware running on the d…

"A much less aggressive (and thoughtful) move would be to contact the researchers directly." Not conducting this demonstration on a public highway would also have been a much less aggressive and thoughtful move, not to mention less dangerous.

Finally some IT guys getting how the press works and now you want to change their story to something like "how I hacked a car in my backyard".
Post reply on HN