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Ask HN: What are your biggest frustrations with Linux development?

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Re: Ask HN: What are your biggest frustrations with Linux development?

#61

Development tools on linux continue to be great. A visual studio quality ide would be nice, but realistically I'd continue to use vim and the terminal. What really irks me is the desktop environment situation. I haven't had a linux install in a couple of years and it seems that all of the desktops have gotten worse in the last few years. Unity continues to add on terrible features and follows the similar ui antipatte…

Linux Mint might be an option. It's essentially Ubuntu, but it swaps GNOME for Cinnamon which does away with a lot of the more recent GNOME changes.

Re: Ask HN: What are your biggest frustrations with Linux development?

#62
post #60

I prefer developing with Linux. There are generally more tools available than Mac and Windows. Some of the ones I use are xmonad, tmux, vim (nvim), ag, ycm, clang, gcc, gdb, cmake, make, ninja, perf, valgrind, strace, etc... Compared to Windows, even just having a decent shell with coreutils is huge. If there is something that a tool doesn't already do, I can generally combine other ones to do it. For example, sed ca…

Some of those exact tools you mentioned might not exist on Windows, but comparable tools absolutely do exist. You might even have to pay for them, but I bet in those cases, you at least get a nice UI as compared to none.

Re: Ask HN: What are your biggest frustrations with Linux development?

#63
post #2

Lack of good hardware/laptops. I had a Lenovo X200s for over 4 years and finding a viable replacement is almost impossible. I am saddened by the fact that there are no i7 / 16GB / highDPI with decent keyboard at the price of a 2015 Retina MBP.

What's your issue with the x250? It goes up to a i7-5600U, has a great keyboard with a tolerable layout, resolution up to 1080p which is pretty decent for a 12.5 inch screen. It even has a SO-DIMM slot rather than soldered on RAM so you can do 16GB of memory (caveat: 16GB SO-DIMMs are single-source and not cheap).

The x250 is still a hard upgrade to justify if you're coming from an x220/x230, due to the ULV processor. But there should be no question when coming from an x200.

Re: Ask HN: What are your biggest frustrations with Linux development?

#64
1. Fragmentation. Getting something as simple as a bluetooth speaker is a challenge depending on which distro you are on.

2. Package management. Again, a package may be available under vastly different names or config depending on what your distro overlords decided

3. Second class Citizens. Games and software that I want to use is very often never available for Linux. Companies that used to develop are dropping it (ynab). Indie game devs are picking it up, but companies like GitHub are still to even commit to a linux client. Google Drive for Linux was announced more than 3 years back to be under development, but is still unreleased.

I still love Linux, and refuse to switch to Mac (despite almost everyone around me doing so). This is mostly because I love how easy and straightforward it is to develop in Linux.

Re: Ask HN: What are your biggest frustrations with Linux development?

#65
post #60

I prefer developing with Linux. There are generally more tools available than Mac and Windows. Some of the ones I use are xmonad, tmux, vim (nvim), ag, ycm, clang, gcc, gdb, cmake, make, ninja, perf, valgrind, strace, etc... Compared to Windows, even just having a decent shell with coreutils is huge. If there is something that a tool doesn't already do, I can generally combine other ones to do it. For example, sed ca…

Some of those exact tools you mentioned might not exist on Windows, but comparable tools absolutely do exist. You might even have to pay for them, but I bet in those cases, you at least get a nice UI as compared to none.

There are some similar tools on Windows (e.g. Sysinternals). UIs generally aren't scriptable, which is a serious limitation for me.

Re: Ask HN: What are your biggest frustrations with Linux development?

#66

What I think really lack in Linux is: - Good hardware that is nice to use (look beautiful) and works well with Linux. - A great IDE that doesn't look like shit right out of the box. I know many can be configured and tampered with, but I simply do not enjoy that enough to go through the pain. Otherwise, my biggest pain and why I definately go back to Windows is that I can't play my games on my machine. Many games stil…

#1 Since you have a liking to apple hw. Ubuntu does support apple laptops so if your heart is with apple hw - give it a ubuntu try.

#2 Sublime text, Komodo edit, Netbeans, etc. What is your complaint on IDE front?.

#3 This is a post about Linux suitability for development environment. If you wanna play games get one which is more suited and use it for the purpose. Even a dual boot environment. Mixing development environment effectiveness with ability to play games on it doesn't even sound right.

Re: Ask HN: What are your biggest frustrations with Linux development?

#67
post #58
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the trick is to cherry-pick laptops. There's only a handful of decent laptops in the market that run Linux very well (drivers in kernel, perfect powersaving, ACPI events from battery, etc). My MacBook Air 11 inch 2012 (formerly used by Linus) is pretty good. So were some Lenovos like x220. These days Chromebook Pixel or Dell XPS hold some promise. Also cheap Chromebooks like some Acer and some Asus. I have my…

The keyboard is missing keys (like delete) and there is no button on the mouse. Small things but pretty annoying if you are used to clicking the middle button for pasting. And the battery seems to last about half of the time compared to OSX

I get an _extra_ 10-20 min in Linux vs OS X thanks to powertop tweaks implemented via udev rules and a minimal desktop with a tiling WM and no desktop environment.

But I agree on the annoying omissions. I hate no dedicated insert, although shift + backspace works well.

Re: Ask HN: What are your biggest frustrations with Linux development?

#68
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of those exact tools you mentioned might not exist on Windows, but comparable tools absolutely do exist. You might even have to pay for them, but I bet in those cases, you at least get a nice UI as compared to none.

There are some similar tools on Windows (e.g. Sysinternals). UIs generally aren't scriptable, which is a serious limitation for me.

The fact that UIs aren't generally scriptable doesn't mean that the dev tools I'm referring to aren't scriptable or otherwise able to be automated.

There are a lot of trade-offs that I think Unix-centric devs don't realize, for the simple fact that they don't venture outside of their own ecosystem for various reasons. One of those trade-offs in my opinion is a certain lack of polish that seems to pervade the Unix-dev-tools landscape. There are thousands of instances of this, but one that I recently encountered was that Vim just can't do code folding very well. You can make it fold on syntax or on markers, but not both. AutoFold tries to remedy this, but as you add plugins to make Vim do things that Visual Studio does well, performance goes down.

Another things that annoys me when I'm working on nix systems is that I feel like I always have to cobble together my kit before I can begin any real work. I'll take a well thought out, professional dev-kit from a big name company any day over a disparate set of single-purpose bins and libs that I have to string together.

Re: Ask HN: What are your biggest frustrations with Linux development?

#69
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some similar tools on Windows (e.g. Sysinternals). UIs generally aren't scriptable, which is a serious limitation for me.

The fact that UIs aren't generally scriptable doesn't mean that the dev tools I'm referring to aren't scriptable or otherwise able to be automated. There are a lot of trade-offs that I think Unix-centric devs don't realize, for the simple fact that they don't venture outside of their own ecosystem for various reasons. One of those trade-offs in my opinion is a certain lack of polish that seems to pervade the Unix-dev…

The difference for me is largely flexibility. Windows tools tend to be monolithic, which is okay for certain things, but it's generally difficult to extend. As a developer, modularity is important to me. Even GCC I can't use to build any development tools since it's monolithic. LLVM is extremely modular though and even provides an intuitive API to interface with the AST, which makes building any new tools simpler (ycm is based on it).

I disagree on the well thought out IDE. A lot of people I know are more productive with them, but the functionality tends to actually slow me down. The interfaces are generally point and click oriented, which I prefer to avoid. Another issue is that non-typical functionality tends to be hidden behind deep, unintuitive menus. Doing simple things often means digging through documentation, searching the web, or even manually digging through menus which wastes a lot of time for me. For example, building a static LUT with 255 entries. With vim (nvim), all I need to do is...

qqILUT[=i] = y;:let i+=1q254@q.

I'd be skeptical there's a way to do that in an IDE.

I personally haven't had any issues using syntax based or explicit code folding in vim (nvim), but it's rare that I actually need it. Normally I can navigate by searching, code reference, generated documentation, or a code search and cross-reference tool though.

Re: Ask HN: What are your biggest frustrations with Linux development?

#70
post #60

I prefer developing with Linux. There are generally more tools available than Mac and Windows. Some of the ones I use are xmonad, tmux, vim (nvim), ag, ycm, clang, gcc, gdb, cmake, make, ninja, perf, valgrind, strace, etc... Compared to Windows, even just having a decent shell with coreutils is huge. If there is something that a tool doesn't already do, I can generally combine other ones to do it. For example, sed ca…

Are you having issues with speed? You can't accelerate Scons or most other Make tools, and CI is still slow when running thousands of tests.
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