Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway • Hacker News Board

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#91

Post by spacehome » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 3:12 PM UTC

jamespo wrote: post #70

calgoo wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but the cops lost that trust from me when the started sending swat teams and abusing power way to much. Since then, to me calling the cops has become a last resort. I dont trust ANY of them because of the few a holes that are abusing their power. Mainly caused because of their policies of shutting up and protecting each others. Until they fix this, i will not trust ANY cop again.

Until you're a victim of a crime I presume

I'm not sure how this would make calgoo change his mind.

* Cops are under no obligation to go into harms way to protect the public.

* Cops primarily exist to collect evidence for prosecution after the fact.

* Just because criminals and crimes exist doesn't take away from cops' bad behavior.

* If calgoo becomes the victim of a crime, cops are unlikely to be able to make him whole again - for bodily injury, prosecution of the perpretrator can't restore his body or life - for property damage or theft, police usually can't be bothered with the small stuff.

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#92

Post by SG- » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 3:15 PM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #80

hughw wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is chock full of self-righteous hall monitors. They usually don't progress to the point of calling the cops.

Can you expand a little on how calling the police about something is more or less self righteous than doing the (at least somewhat dangerous) experiment on a public highway?

Never talk to the police. At least in places like St-Louis and other cities with historically bad police departments (most of the US).

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#93

Post by Someone1234 » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 3:17 PM UTC

wil421 wrote: post #78

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not gonna make the news unless the media can spin up a headline that scares people People won't pay attention until they're scared People won't demand action if they're not paying attention Nothing will happened if people don't demand action. If nothing happens the status quo (vulnerable systems) will remain. Until some bad actor (I'm sure several nations states would love that capability) gets into onStar and…

They didnt have to do this on a public highway. A large parking lot would have be sufficient. Why should other motorists be subject to harm because a couple hackers and a reporter want to make a story. They could've easily gone on one of the 24hr news channels to scare the masses.

Or heck even a quiet public road. There are tons of inter-state roads that have single-digit numbers of cars an hour. Just drive out into the desert and play around.

PS - Plus due to the flatness of these roads, with large de-facto shoulders you can pull off onto, they're much safer even ignoring traffic levels.

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#94

Post by knorby » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 3:17 PM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #87

tombrossman wrote: post #12

Some questions for the researchers, or anyone else who thinks this was okay: 1) Were public roadways and speeds of 70mph absolutely necessary to demo this? 2) What was the plan if the trucker approaching at 70mph hadn't seen the Jeep stalled early and had to swerve or panic stop, possibly crashing and injuring themselves or others? 3) Anyone notify the Missouri State Highway Patrol about this? They may be contacting…

[deleted]

So either the journalist/researchers did something highly dangerous to the reporter and others on the highway as a stunt, or the journalist has no qualms about making up details for shock value? Sounds ethical.

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#95

Post by stevendhansen » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 3:17 PM UTC

tombrossman wrote: post #12

Some questions for the researchers, or anyone else who thinks this was okay: 1) Were public roadways and speeds of 70mph absolutely necessary to demo this? 2) What was the plan if the trucker approaching at 70mph hadn't seen the Jeep stalled early and had to swerve or panic stop, possibly crashing and injuring themselves or others? 3) Anyone notify the Missouri State Highway Patrol about this? They may be contacting…

Calling the police on security researchers...I honestly cannot believe this is considered acceptable behavior. A much less aggressive (and thoughtful) move would be to contact the researchers directly. Wow.

Back to the article, I think that this type of exploit will become more and more common as vehicles become more connected and automated. We need to know that we can trust the software and firmware running on the devices that literally have the power of life and death over us. Unfortunately, this is a VERY complicated issue, and no one has a solution yet AFAIK.

I watched a talk by Cory Doctorow last year where he suggested validation at the hardware level (a la trusted platform modules), but unlike the typical TPMs that only allow vendor software to be authenticated, these TPMs would allow the user to directly authenticate the firmware. If you know the firmware is good, then each layer can validate the next layer up all the way to the OS.

I have yet to hear of a system that allows the user to directly authenticate software/firmware at the hardware level. Is anybody working on research of this nature? Or are there insurmountable problems with this approach?

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#96

Post by SG- » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 3:18 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #81

feld wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You better have the Highway Patrol investigate every single person who doesn't maintain their car properly and takes it on the highway because they're causing far more risk than this demo came close to creating, IMHO. Was it a stunt? Yes. Was it life threatening? Hardly. The real risk is the early 90s Civic with a torn up clutch and bald tires swerving between lanes.

> Was it life threatening? Hardly. Uhh what? It seems you cannot go a week without reading about a pile-up on a freeway. Just last week a big-rig lost a wheel, it rolled into the on-coming lane, and drivers swerving and braking to avoid it actually caused a pile up. Stopping even on the shoulder on a freeway is considered "risky" by most police officers and many (like triple digits) have been killed while stopped in…

ya well all they did was stall the engine, they didn't tell the car to apply the brakes.

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#97

Post by droopybuns » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 3:18 PM UTC

tombrossman wrote: post #12

Some questions for the researchers, or anyone else who thinks this was okay: 1) Were public roadways and speeds of 70mph absolutely necessary to demo this? 2) What was the plan if the trucker approaching at 70mph hadn't seen the Jeep stalled early and had to swerve or panic stop, possibly crashing and injuring themselves or others? 3) Anyone notify the Missouri State Highway Patrol about this? They may be contacting…

Now there are two parties who are making poor choices about how to handle things.

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#98

Post by vvanders » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 3:19 PM UTC

daveloyall wrote: post #82

So, a HN commentator apparently called the cops on these guys after reading the Wired article. Several commentators more or less agree, arguing that performing these tests on the I-40 was criminally negligent. Stop right there. Grow some balls. These guys are elite, their demo was badass, and I've done stupider things on I-40 for no reason . And wtf you called the cops? head in hand

Because the did it on public road, intentionally causing him to lose control of the vehicle.

Bunch of idiots if you ask me, no better than the clueless people you see talking on their cellphones distracted. A 1 ton vehicle is deadly in the wrong situation.

Like many other people mentioned, there's many ways to demonstrate this is a safe, controlled manner rather than out in the wild.

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#99

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 3:20 PM UTC

jamespo wrote: post #70

calgoo wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but the cops lost that trust from me when the started sending swat teams and abusing power way to much. Since then, to me calling the cops has become a last resort. I dont trust ANY of them because of the few a holes that are abusing their power. Mainly caused because of their policies of shutting up and protecting each others. Until they fix this, i will not trust ANY cop again.

Until you're a victim of a crime I presume

[deleted]

Re: Hackers Remotely Attack a Jeep on the Highway

#100

Post by hoopism » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 3:21 PM UTC

To recap the facts:

- Man drives car on public highway @ speeds of up to 70mph

- Hackers turn on windshield wipers and fluid to blur view

- Hackers Blare music and obscure any comms link to driver

- Hackers disable vehicle on Highway at location with no shoulder

And there are people who are not only ok with type of experiment but think there should be more of it.

I understand that these exploits need to get attention... but I really can't stop thinking about my wife and kids being behind this guy while he shows how dangerous this can be.

I applaud the person who notified the police.