What happens when you talk about salaries at Google • Hacker News Board

Re: What happens when you talk about salaries at Google

#261

Post by murbard2 » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 2:32 PM UTC

jaawn wrote: post #226

murbard2 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they have nothing to fear, because these prosecutions never serve a political agenda, the judicial system has displayed a commitment to integrity, people don't assume the accused are automatically guilty, and trials are so cost efficient that people only settle when they've done something wrong.

Even political agendas and sensationalist trials need some leg to stand on to be successful. If you hire honestly and set pay honestly and fairly, with recorded justifications, it is unlikely that your company would suffer any negative repercussions of pay transparency. However, this doesn't mean " absolutely no company anywhere will run into legal trouble due to this" There are always exceptions, but they are just t…

No, they really don't. I've seen it happen many times in finance, baseless accusations extracting large fines because settling is almost always cheaper than fighting in court. In something like hiring policies which can be discretionary, the problem is 10 times worse.

Re: What happens when you talk about salaries at Google

#262

Post by cpncrunch » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 2:32 PM UTC

chockablock wrote: post #174

sergiotapia wrote: post #89

Other side of the story: https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/3e05wg/what_hap... Either way both are completely unverifiable. Take both with a huge fistful of salt until both parties are interviewed and quoted and research is done into what happened.

One 'side' is a non-anonymous first-person account from one of the major parties in the described event. The other 'side' is a post from Redditor 'dickbutt_md', who claims to have called up "a friend" who works at Google. In dickbutt's account, the friend claims not to know Joy personally, and not to have been involved in the events, but manages to describe Joy as "passive aggressive" and "not classy", and closes by…

Here is an (apparently) non-anonymous comment from HN which seems to be saying the same thing:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9908030

Re: What happens when you talk about salaries at Google

#263

Post by Loughla » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 2:33 PM UTC

StevePerkins wrote: post #112

Loughla wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.govdocs.com/can-employees-discuss-pay-salaries/ TL;DR It's illegal to fire your employees for discussing salary in the US. California isn't special, neither is Google.

That's so cute. I bet you also have a link that says union-busting is illegal, too. I'm not making a normative statement about the way things "ought to be", I'm making a positive statement about the way things "actually are" across most of the world ( http://beta.tutor2u.net/economics/reference/positive-and-nor... ). Shoot the messenger if you like.

Ought to be is the way it is. Firing an employee because he discusses his salary with other employees is illegal. You are free to fire that person, but you should expect a lawsuit.

And did you really link to a tutoring lesson about objective and subjective statements to 'prove your point'? What a useless thing to do. Your knee-jerk anti-establishment opinion about how the world works, based on your limited experience is not a good bellwether. (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sophomoric); shoot the messenger if you like.

Re: What happens when you talk about salaries at Google

#264

Post by aniket_ray » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 2:35 PM UTC

chockablock wrote: post #174

sergiotapia wrote: post #89

Other side of the story: https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/3e05wg/what_hap... Either way both are completely unverifiable. Take both with a huge fistful of salt until both parties are interviewed and quoted and research is done into what happened.

One 'side' is a non-anonymous first-person account from one of the major parties in the described event. The other 'side' is a post from Redditor 'dickbutt_md', who claims to have called up "a friend" who works at Google. In dickbutt's account, the friend claims not to know Joy personally, and not to have been involved in the events, but manages to describe Joy as "passive aggressive" and "not classy", and closes by…

Google has a lot of internal discussions in town halls, G+, TGIFs, memegen etc. You don't have to know someone personally to know how they approach issues.

Also I can completely understand why the Googler on reddit chose to remain anonymous. There's a pretty vocal brigade of "rabble rousers"(for lack of a better term) at Google.

Re: What happens when you talk about salaries at Google

#265

Post by davidcgl » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 2:37 PM UTC

staticelf wrote: post #49

bakhy wrote: post #30

i hope things like this serve as a wake up call to all young talents willing to sacrifice their lives for these companies, enamored with some idealized visions of what they are and do. a company is a company. an agent for making money, first and foremost. any positive change they bring is a side-effect, and due to their ever greater power they must constantly be policed, at least by releasing unpleasant information l…

And in my opinion as a young talent, Google is highly overrated when it comes to creating good software. Sure they have some hits, but a lot of it also is kind of bad. To be regarded as the best of the best, I think they make pretty shitty software.

I'm not sure if you've worked at Google. There is a ton of bleeding edge software systems at Google that aren't user facing.

Re: What happens when you talk about salaries at Google

#266

Post by jaawn » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 2:37 PM UTC

murbard2 wrote: post #261

jaawn wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even political agendas and sensationalist trials need some leg to stand on to be successful. If you hire honestly and set pay honestly and fairly, with recorded justifications, it is unlikely that your company would suffer any negative repercussions of pay transparency. However, this doesn't mean " absolutely no company anywhere will run into legal trouble due to this" There are always exceptions, but they are just t…

No, they really don't. I've seen it happen many times in finance, baseless accusations extracting large fines because settling is almost always cheaper than fighting in court. In something like hiring policies which can be discretionary, the problem is 10 times worse.

If that is the case, is that the fault of hiring and pay transparency, or the justice system?

Re: What happens when you talk about salaries at Google

#267

Post by pessimizer » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 2:37 PM UTC

Mikushi wrote: post #219

mhluongo wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone sharing something on Twitter isn't supposed to be journalism. AFAIK the original author isn't a journalist, she's a technologist who got fed up.

Then why her writing is taken seriously by anyone? This piece at best is an opinion, mostly trash. Hearsay, rumours, implication, this is professional gossiping. I don't deny the claims she makes, but the form in which she makes them really doesn't help her case, and the form clearly calls to create an online shitstorm. We should shame publications who use "stories" like these. It's damaging for everyone involved and…

I think you're confusing complaints about copying twitter posts verbatim and calling it a story with an attack on somebody making a public worker's rights and possible discrimination complaint.

The reason we listen to people is to learn things.

Re: What happens when you talk about salaries at Google

#268

Post by ryanmonroe » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 2:37 PM UTC

deadmik3 wrote: post #199

angelbob wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Retaliation is illegal against them, too.

The point is the manager might not have even been implying any retaliation. Can you think of other possible meanings behind the manager's question?

I can't . Can you?

Re: What happens when you talk about salaries at Google

#269

Post by jessaustin » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 2:39 PM UTC

deadmik3 wrote: post #151

aaronem wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Heaven forfend staff should behave in a way potentially inimical to the interests of management, instead of the other way around.

Staff works for management. While it's nice to have times where the management "works for" their employees, the whole point is that management is supposed to be happy.

Don't conflate management with the company's owners, whose happiness is the actual goal. (Granted, sometimes these are the same people, wearing different hats.) As anyone who has worked in private industry can tell you, management often acts in its own interests, even when those interests conflict with those of both employees and owners.

Re: What happens when you talk about salaries at Google

#270

Post by pessimizer » Tue, Jul 21, 2015, 2:39 PM UTC

wayanon wrote: post #107

bronxcoder wrote: post #43

I hate that wage disparity is being heralded as a gender issue. It's really a negotiating problem. My coworker and I were hired together, same position, same experience, and offered the same salary. When I was offered the position, I asked for $15,000 more and they gave it to me. My coworker didn't ask for more and is therefore now making $15,000 less than me. After six months, I asked for a raise of $5,000. He never…

If your employer said to your colleague 'look bronxcoder asked for and received a raise and you both work equally hard so you will get the raise too' - would you be annoyed or happy ? I think is much more ethical to treat people like this but maybe your colleague isn't doing such a good job as you.

Happy.