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A Man Who Flies Around the World for Free

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Re: A Man Who Flies Around the World for Free

#141

Post by todd3834 »

misterbwong wrote: post #79
saryant wrote: post #30

I spend more time than I should in the churning/FF communities (all of which are centered around FlyerTalk). It's fun. Ben's blog is one of the few I follow, most aren't that great. Frequent Miler is a solid resource, as is Wandering Aramean, but nothing beats being active on FlyerTalk itself. In the last five years I've managed to earn and spend about 1.5 million miles and points, with maybe 50k airline miles from a…

Good to see another FT'er on HN. I've earned/burned about the same volume of points as you and can attest that this hobby is awesome, with some caveats. For the beginners out there: 1. Be sure to read as much about earning miles as redeeming them. Both sides are equally important and redeeming is actually getting much more difficult. 2. Don't let the newbie blogs lure you into hitting credit cards too hard. Banks are…

How does this affect your credit score?

Re: A Man Who Flies Around the World for Free

#142

Post by ISL »

saryant wrote: post #130
gwern wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue here is more one of externalities. We all know that fuel prices are not at the true cost which prices in all the pollution, geopolitical turmoil, military interventions, global warming, government subsidies etc, and that fuel is one of the largest costs airlines have. So when this guy and his followers hop on planes and fly millions of miles, often for no reason other than to game some tiny loophole…

How much is actually being burned though? How much fuel does it take to transport 200lbs on a transpacific flight?

Wikipedia suggests ~100 mpg/passenger [1]. As Schlappig has flown more than 400,000 miles, he's burned up about 4,000 gallons of fuel. That's a lot of fuel. It's enough to heat a northeastern United States home for about eight winters [2].

But it's not that much fuel. A 30-mpg automobile will consume a similar quantity of fuel (gasoline, not jet fuel) in 120,000 miles of driving.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_efficiency_in_transport... [2] http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/steo/tables/pdf/wf-table.pdf

Re: A Man Who Flies Around the World for Free

#143

Post by eru »

kajecounterhack wrote: post #140
trentmb wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trade your free time and (temporary) credit score rating for miles- flights, hotel stays.

Why was this voted down? Is this inaccurate? Another layman question, what does this do to your credit score?

You'll be opening a lot of credit cards, that might suppress your score. But since you are paying off all of them, it should only be temporary.

Re: A Man Who Flies Around the World for Free

#144

Post by andyman1080 »

gwern wrote: post #127
saryant wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious as to what the morality argument actually is, as this isn't the first comment to espouse that view. What do you find morally questionable about churning? It's game in which banks and airlines write the rules and reserve the right to change them unilaterally.

I think the issue here is more one of externalities. We all know that fuel prices are not at the true cost which prices in all the pollution, geopolitical turmoil, military interventions, global warming, government subsidies etc, and that fuel is one of the largest costs airlines have. So when this guy and his followers hop on planes and fly millions of miles, often for no reason other than to game some tiny loophole…

Part of the reason this hobby continues to exist (and remain so lucrative for some participants) is because they are such a small segment of the total passenger miles traveled. If we had some numbers I think it would dramatically weaken this particular argument. Also in general the airlines' primary justification for giving away seats as awards is that they predict those seats will go unsold.

Re: A Man Who Flies Around the World for Free

#145

Post by saryant »

andyman1080 wrote: post #144
gwern wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue here is more one of externalities. We all know that fuel prices are not at the true cost which prices in all the pollution, geopolitical turmoil, military interventions, global warming, government subsidies etc, and that fuel is one of the largest costs airlines have. So when this guy and his followers hop on planes and fly millions of miles, often for no reason other than to game some tiny loophole…

Part of the reason this hobby continues to exist (and remain so lucrative for some participants) is because they are such a small segment of the total passenger miles traveled. If we had some numbers I think it would dramatically weaken this particular argument. Also in general the airlines' primary justification for giving away seats as awards is that they predict those seats will go unsold.

I'd be surprised if there are more than a thousand or so people who game the FF programs to this degree. And the number who do so to the degree of Lucky (subject of the article) is probably in the single digits.

That said, I don't think Lucky even comes close to the amount of flying Tom Struker does, United's only 10 million mile member.

Re: A Man Who Flies Around the World for Free

#146

Post by trentmb »

kajecounterhack wrote: post #140
trentmb wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trade your free time and (temporary) credit score rating for miles- flights, hotel stays.

Why was this voted down? Is this inaccurate? Another layman question, what does this do to your credit score?

> Why was this voted down?

People that engage in churning are a bit self-conscious (source: recovering churner). Simple fact is you don't churn if you don't have to- it's not worth your time.

> Another layman question, what does this do to your credit score?

Opening new credit cards lowers your credit score- it adds weight to the single debt category(mortgage has a house backing it, a credit card doesn't), lowers the average age of credit lines (someone that has paid a home loan on time for the past 20 years is more 'reliable' than the naive 18-year old college student das company is preying upon), and, if you open too many at once, gives the impression you're desperate, insolvent.

Re: A Man Who Flies Around the World for Free

#147

Post by BorisMelnik »

dublidu wrote: post #131
saryant wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The payoff comes from doing it to hit signup bonuses. If you needed to spend $5000 on a card, you could buy Visa gift cards and spend $59.50, but get 105,000 miles from the bonus. Essentially a round-trip business class ticket from the US to Asia.

And what do you do with the $5000 of gift cards?

many times what you will end up with is $XXXX in non-transferable gift cards or you will have to sit on them. in those cases you just use them to pay your bills or use them as your spending cash etc.

Re: A Man Who Flies Around the World for Free

#148

Post by brc »

gwern wrote: post #127
saryant wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious as to what the morality argument actually is, as this isn't the first comment to espouse that view. What do you find morally questionable about churning? It's game in which banks and airlines write the rules and reserve the right to change them unilaterally.

I think the issue here is more one of externalities. We all know that fuel prices are not at the true cost which prices in all the pollution, geopolitical turmoil, military interventions, global warming, government subsidies etc, and that fuel is one of the largest costs airlines have. So when this guy and his followers hop on planes and fly millions of miles, often for no reason other than to game some tiny loophole…

Seriously, you could apply this to any hobby if you want to use an endless list of externalities.

I mean, come on. It's not like the plane would be sitting on the Tarmac if he didn't board it. It's flying anyway.

Re: A Man Who Flies Around the World for Free

#149

Post by brc »

glup wrote: post #114

Anyone else find this "hobby" somewhere between low-grade morally questionable and a completely banal use of above-average problem-solving skills? Upper middle class man-children with disposable income can, I'm sure you're surprised to find out, game overenthusiastic corporate behemoths?

How is it morally questionable?

Who hasn't overfilled their cup many times at self-serve drinks counter? Been back for three plates of ice cream at a buffet?

It's sounds like a lot of work but completely harmless. Finding loopholes in complicated systems to me seems like a type of arbitrage mor than anything.

Re: A Man Who Flies Around the World for Free

#150

Post by rktjmp »

saryant wrote: post #130
gwern wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue here is more one of externalities. We all know that fuel prices are not at the true cost which prices in all the pollution, geopolitical turmoil, military interventions, global warming, government subsidies etc, and that fuel is one of the largest costs airlines have. So when this guy and his followers hop on planes and fly millions of miles, often for no reason other than to game some tiny loophole…

How much is actually being burned though? How much fuel does it take to transport 200lbs on a transpacific flight?

Perhaps more importantly, how much fuel does it take to transport 200lbs in relation to transporting the rest of the plane?

Not like he's specifically chartering the flights, the planes is going to fly with or without him.

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