Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked • Hacker News Board

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#311

Post by reinhardt » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 9:38 PM UTC

jaawn wrote: post #304

vectorjohn wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a factual statement. It's your opinion. It isn't up to you to decide this for other people.

Its intent is to do something which harms. I don't think the infinitesimal collection of people who want their partners to "cheat" on them justify the flexibility you're implying. Basically, what you are saying, is that some people are not harmed by being cheated on, and therefore it isn't fair for us to judge the actions of the sites users, because maybe all or most of them are in a situation where there is no harm.…

Going somewhat off on a tangent here but I'm wondering, what is the factual, tangible harm of cheating that you so take for granted? STDs and unwanted pregnancies, I'll give you that but let's assume that everyone's a responsible adult and wears protection. What else? Trust?

I guess promising to (not) do `X` and not keeping your word makes you untrustworthy but what is the literal harm on someone other than the self-referential belief that breaking promises is bad? To illustrate, let's assume that `X` is something like "I promise to not eat zucchini without you ever again". How is "cheating" by secretly gorging once on zucchini with some friends harmful to the person you give it to, other than their self-induced idea that it is bad?

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#312

Post by cjsthompson » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 9:40 PM UTC

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #277

josinalvo wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To cheat, to break your word given to a life partner, is not just distasteful. It is wrong. It makes the world a darker place, and not only to you and your partner (and that is what wrong means) I know this kind of statement is viewed with distrust. And I see why this is so. But I think some moral discussion might be good (rather than just the bland 'lets not judge') First, I am not saying that I think all marriages…

The time, place, and manner of sex or other activity that occurs between two consenting adults is none of my business whatsoever unless one of those people is my spouse. When one of those people is my spouse and the other is not me, then my problem is with my spouse, not with any website or other instrument used to facilitate the infidelity. What meaning would an agreement such as marriage have if cheating were liter…

Let's discuss how we are forced to live with people who don't share our standards of behavior (like those who cling to 17th century individualistic philosophy which science has long debunked) and force us to compromise on the kind of society we want because of centralized government.

Let's also discuss how human behavioral biology predicts that if you are in favor of polygamy you are highly likely to be an arrogant, aggressive, sexist bully (like males of tournament species are) who makes society worse for everyone else.

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#313

Post by cjsthompson » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 9:47 PM UTC

balls2you wrote: post #278

amyjess wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having an affair actually is illegal in almost half the US, and in some states, it's even a felony.

> Having an affair actually is illegal in almost half the US, and in some states, it's even a felony. Wow! United Saudi Arabia (USA)!

Saudi Arabia allows polygyny which is the complete opposite of this.

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#314

Post by cjsthompson » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 10:00 PM UTC

netcan wrote: post #194

aetherson wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people who use the site may be "innocent" (because they didn't actually do anything, or because they're in an open marriage or whatever). And even people who are to one degree or other "guilty" are not as a class to be declared guilty and given all the same punishment. That said, while I can't necessarily judge any given user of the site, I'm pretty confident that the people running the site are contributing…

Liberalism is an idea that has a lot of weight on this site. For some, it's libertarian kind of liberalism where people should be left to make their won economic decisions. For others its the social liberalism kind where people should be allowed to decide for themselves what is a valid marriage, or what drugs they will or won't put in their bodies. Most flavors of liberalism have at their heart the idea that "The Sta…

How about the choice of not having to live with those who think such sites are ok?

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#315

Post by reinhardt » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 10:03 PM UTC

cmdrfred wrote: post #282

Miner49er wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adultery is a crime in some states.

So is sodomy, a yet its legal for gay people to get married... law is confusing.

What's confusing? Clearly lawful married gay people engage in oral sex only

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#316

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 10:07 PM UTC

cmdrfred wrote: post #282

Miner49er wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adultery is a crime in some states.

So is sodomy, a yet its legal for gay people to get married... law is confusing.

> So is sodomy

Well, on the face of the statutes, yes, but unlike statutes criminalizing adultery, those criminalizing consensual sodomy have been pretty clearly struck down as unconstitutional, so the fact that they remain "on the books" does not actually mean that they are criminal, since the law purporting to make them so is itself invalid.

(There's some debate about the Constitutional status of adultery statutes, but AFAIK no federal court has yet stuck them down for violating the federal Constitution.)

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#317

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 10:08 PM UTC

reinhardt wrote: post #315

cmdrfred wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is sodomy, a yet its legal for gay people to get married... law is confusing.

What's confusing? Clearly lawful married gay people engage in oral sex only

Oral sex is often prohibited [0] by sodomy laws.

[0] To the extent anything is prohibited by an unconstitutional "law" that cannot be enforced.

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#318

Post by cjsthompson » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 10:15 PM UTC

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #165

jdalgetty wrote: post #141

It get's me that so many people are basically saying it serves these people right for using the service. I don't think that it matters that this is a "cheating" site, your privacy should still be guarded and it's not fair that all these people are being exposed. Secondly, I'd wager that many of the users sign up to use Ashley Madison for the thrill of the idea and probably aren't actually cheaters themselves or hooki…

The arm-chair morality here is mindblowing. Reminds me of when homosexuals developed aids in the 80s; "Serves them right." I think people need to really stop it with the revenge fantasies for behaviors they dislike. If anything, AM reflects something that might change in society, namely if life-long monogamy makes sense. Many would argue that of course it does, but not too long ago these were the same people calling…

Being knowledgeable about the typical behavior of polygamous primate species as compared to monogamous ones, I find polygamy questionable.

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#319

Post by fnordfnordfnord » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 10:23 PM UTC

cjsthompson wrote: post #312

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The time, place, and manner of sex or other activity that occurs between two consenting adults is none of my business whatsoever unless one of those people is my spouse. When one of those people is my spouse and the other is not me, then my problem is with my spouse, not with any website or other instrument used to facilitate the infidelity. What meaning would an agreement such as marriage have if cheating were liter…

Let's discuss how we are forced to live with people who don't share our standards of behavior (like those who cling to 17th century individualistic philosophy which science has long debunked) and force us to compromise on the kind of society we want because of centralized government. Let's also discuss how human behavioral biology predicts that if you are in favor of polygamy you are highly likely to be an arrogant,…

In another reply in this subthread, I explain my ideas about compromise based upon what I learned in elementary school. It may make me slightly uncomfortable to share the land with flat-earthers, but as long as they don't try to teach astronomy to my children I'll leave them be. I might even have them over for dinner or mow their lawn when they're away since, aside from being morons who don't vote the same as me, they are mostly pleasant, generous, peaceful people.

>Let's also discuss how human behavioral biology predicts that if you are in favor of polygamy you are highly likely to be an arrogant, aggressive, sexist bully (like males of tournament species are) who makes society worse for everyone else.

Okay, can we talk about how to best implement a eugenics program to help us solve this problem too? Or perhaps compulsory psychiatric medication? Compulsory hormone therapy?

I think the majority of people agree that polygamy is verboten, not that I really care in principle, at least as far as the law goes. What poly-amorous folks do with each other is none of my business.

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#320

Post by cmdrfred » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 10:26 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #316

cmdrfred wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is sodomy, a yet its legal for gay people to get married... law is confusing.

> So is sodomy Well, on the face of the statutes, yes, but unlike statutes criminalizing adultery, those criminalizing consensual sodomy have been pretty clearly struck down as unconstitutional, so the fact that they remain "on the books" does not actually mean that they are criminal, since the law purporting to make them so is itself invalid. (There's some debate about the Constitutional status of adultery statutes,…

No federal court but pretty much every state court has.

The United States is one of few industrialized countries to have laws criminalizing adultery. In the United States, laws vary from state to state. Up until the mid 20th century most US states (especially Southern and Northeastern states) had laws against fornication, adultery or cohabitation. These laws have gradually been abolished or struck down by courts as unconstitutional.

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery