Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked • Hacker News Board

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#211

Post by cmyr » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 4:27 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #183

jdalgetty wrote: post #141

It get's me that so many people are basically saying it serves these people right for using the service. I don't think that it matters that this is a "cheating" site, your privacy should still be guarded and it's not fair that all these people are being exposed. Secondly, I'd wager that many of the users sign up to use Ashley Madison for the thrill of the idea and probably aren't actually cheaters themselves or hooki…

I agree with the sentiment that the nature of the site doesn't condone the action. I note that by its nature, it is a very attractive target for thieves as that data could be the basis for extortion. It also might be used in political campaigns or against other public figures. But at the end of the day, it is another example of how organized crime has moved into the "net" and set up shop. Which combined with nation s…

Why do we assume this is organized crime? It seems to be more a vigilante then a 'for-profit' crime.

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#212

Post by stdgy » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 4:29 PM UTC

aetherson wrote: post #188

unchocked wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how enabling affairs contributes to the net misery of the world. A civilized society ought to move away from your sort of moralizing judgement about relations between consenting adults, or those who facilitate them. Adults are free to fuck: they are happier for doing it.

Whatever you think that a civilized society "ought" to move away from, then fact of the matter is that the rest of society doesn't agree with you. And, in fact, married people are (typically) not "free to fuck," and when they do fuck extramaritally, they are (typically) not happier for doing it, and their spouses are (even more typically) not happier for them doing it. This is a descriptive statement, not a prescript…

Is there significant evidence that people who engage in affairs are more likely to be unhappy than happy after having engaged in them?

I don't doubt the claim, but evidence would be appreciated.

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#213

Post by aaronem » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 4:29 PM UTC

cmyr wrote: post #211

ChuckMcM wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the sentiment that the nature of the site doesn't condone the action. I note that by its nature, it is a very attractive target for thieves as that data could be the basis for extortion. It also might be used in political campaigns or against other public figures. But at the end of the day, it is another example of how organized crime has moved into the "net" and set up shop. Which combined with nation s…

Why do we assume this is organized crime? It seems to be more a vigilante then a 'for-profit' crime.

Indeed; you'd think that, had it been done with intent to extort users or otherwise make prolonged use of the stolen information, they wouldn't have been so obvious about having broken in to begin with.

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#214

Post by ArtDev » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 4:31 PM UTC

straik wrote: post #47

ocfx wrote: post #6

Good. I hope the company goes bankrupt. People murder other people and kill themselves over shit like this.

I can´t see anything good in taking the company down. People are cheating, they always did. It's not illegal, they made a personal decision. Why is it a bad thing to run a platform for these people?

The ads.

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#215

Post by aetherson » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 4:32 PM UTC

lectrick wrote: post #210

aetherson wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people who use the site may be "innocent" (because they didn't actually do anything, or because they're in an open marriage or whatever). And even people who are to one degree or other "guilty" are not as a class to be declared guilty and given all the same punishment. That said, while I can't necessarily judge any given user of the site, I'm pretty confident that the people running the site are contributing…

> I'm pretty confident that the people running the site are contributing to net misery in the world. To be perfectly, bluntly clear- There isn't actually any suffering (and in some cases, still almost none) until the secret gets out. By that definition (which to me is entirely obvious, but clearly not to others), OUTING all of these people is what will cause tremendous suffering. I don't agree with these blanket "eve…

I agree that outing these people will cause tremendous suffering. I'm not advocating for it. And I didn't make any blanket "everyone who does this is bad" statements -- in fact, I specifically disclaimed the opposite.

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#216

Post by TimJRobinson » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 4:33 PM UTC

netcan wrote: post #194

aetherson wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people who use the site may be "innocent" (because they didn't actually do anything, or because they're in an open marriage or whatever). And even people who are to one degree or other "guilty" are not as a class to be declared guilty and given all the same punishment. That said, while I can't necessarily judge any given user of the site, I'm pretty confident that the people running the site are contributing…

Liberalism is an idea that has a lot of weight on this site. For some, it's libertarian kind of liberalism where people should be left to make their won economic decisions. For others its the social liberalism kind where people should be allowed to decide for themselves what is a valid marriage, or what drugs they will or won't put in their bodies. Most flavors of liberalism have at their heart the idea that "The Sta…

Your style of marriage, your religion and what drugs you take are all victimless crimes. Cheating on your spouse definitely has a victim which is why it's much more of an issue than the others you've listed.

Most liberals are not anti state, but pro freedom as long as it doesn't affect anyone else's life.

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#217

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 4:33 PM UTC

jessriedel wrote: post #154

jdalgetty wrote: post #141

It get's me that so many people are basically saying it serves these people right for using the service. I don't think that it matters that this is a "cheating" site, your privacy should still be guarded and it's not fair that all these people are being exposed. Secondly, I'd wager that many of the users sign up to use Ashley Madison for the thrill of the idea and probably aren't actually cheaters themselves or hooki…

All parties involved can be at fault. And lots of people will think that privacy, while very important, is not quite at the same level as marital fidelity. It's like hearing that a vicious murderous mob boss had his leg shot off. Yes, the person who took his leg ought to be sent to jail, but we might not have much sympathy for the mob boss since his terrible actions led directly to those consequences.

[deleted]

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#218

Post by lectrick » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 4:36 PM UTC

aetherson wrote: post #215

lectrick wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm pretty confident that the people running the site are contributing to net misery in the world. To be perfectly, bluntly clear- There isn't actually any suffering (and in some cases, still almost none) until the secret gets out. By that definition (which to me is entirely obvious, but clearly not to others), OUTING all of these people is what will cause tremendous suffering. I don't agree with these blanket "eve…

I agree that outing these people will cause tremendous suffering. I'm not advocating for it. And I didn't make any blanket "everyone who does this is bad" statements -- in fact, I specifically disclaimed the opposite.

And I'm not saying that these people didn't already set all the dominos up to fall themselves. I just wanted to make the point that if the dominos falling is painful, keeping them up in defiance of truth and gravity is not.

> I didn't make any blanket "everyone who does this is bad" statements

Yet you said that site's existence was a "net negative" for happiness in the world, which (unless I'm not being logical) implies that, on average, the actions of the people on that site are negative, i.e., "bad."

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#219

Post by amyjess » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 4:36 PM UTC

netcan wrote: post #179

jdalgetty wrote: post #141

It get's me that so many people are basically saying it serves these people right for using the service. I don't think that it matters that this is a "cheating" site, your privacy should still be guarded and it's not fair that all these people are being exposed. Secondly, I'd wager that many of the users sign up to use Ashley Madison for the thrill of the idea and probably aren't actually cheaters themselves or hooki…

Adding to that, we need to be especially wary of righteous belligerence targeting sexual immorality. We have an ancient and rarely broken tradition of ruining people by accusing them of sexual misbehavior. Infidelity, promiscuity, homosexuality. OScar Wilde & Alan Turing come to mind, from an endless list.

As an LGBT person (both L and T), please don't compare me to cheaters. We're nothing alike, and I find it deeply insulting when people compare cheating with sexual orientation.

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#220

Post by StavrosK » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 4:36 PM UTC

richmarr wrote: post #173

StavrosK wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure Asbostos doesn't want to see the perpetrator of this on trial, they're just saying that the victim was immoral (and I'm not terribly sorry for them either). I am also not convinced that vigilantism is always wrong. I can't blame the villagers who, after seeing a restaurant owner entice a dog with food only to kill it with a chair, never stepped foot in the restaurant again, effectively bankrupting it.

I'm not sure Asbostos doesn't want to... Sure, I'll concede an assumption there. I am also not convinced that vigilantism is always wrong 'Wrong' is subjective so that statement is a truism. For a given act of vigilantism there will be a proportion who condone it and a proportion who don't. Who decides? That's what the law is for. It's so we can't all just wander about dispensing 'justice' without accountability. Wha…

> 'Wrong' is subjective so that statement is a truism

Morality is subjective, so dismissing the statement as a truism means that we can't talk about morality at all.

> For a given act of vigilantism there will be a proportion who condone it and a proportion who don't. Who decides?

Same goes for a given law.

> What happens if someone commits suicide because of this hack?

"I'm not convinced vigilantism is always wrong" is not the same as "I condone this hack".

> Don't you think it's inconsistent

I do indeed.

> Vigilantism is law enforcement undertaken by those without society's authority to do so.

I suspect we'll have to define our terms more strictly if we're going to debate this. My definition of vigilantism includes any action in response to an injustice that isn't performed by the executive branch of government.

I can see how anyone taking the law into their own hands can lead to innocents getting hurt, but the other side of the coin is guilty people walking away. As a society, we've decided to err on the side of the innocent, which is commendable, but that doesn't mean that we've completely and utterly solved the matter of justice, making vigilantism obsolete and always unjustified.