Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked • Hacker News Board

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#171

Post by jaawn » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 3:51 PM UTC

anotherangrydev wrote: post #158

jessriedel wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All parties involved can be at fault. And lots of people will think that privacy, while very important, is not quite at the same level as marital fidelity. It's like hearing that a vicious murderous mob boss had his leg shot off. Yes, the person who took his leg ought to be sent to jail, but we might not have much sympathy for the mob boss since his terrible actions led directly to those consequences.

Typical. Free speech! (Until I hear something I don't like!) Equal rights! (Except for people that are not like me!)

I don't think this argument really applies. It would be one thing if the site was devoted to assisting "open relationships," but it isn't. It is specifically a service to assist people in "cheating" on their partners (with the assumption being that the partners don't know and wouldn't approve). So, because of this specific detail, I don't think the "people not like me should be treated equally!" argument applies. The betrayal is intrinsic, not a matter of opinion.

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#172

Post by Karunamon » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 3:51 PM UTC

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #165

jdalgetty wrote: post #141

It get's me that so many people are basically saying it serves these people right for using the service. I don't think that it matters that this is a "cheating" site, your privacy should still be guarded and it's not fair that all these people are being exposed. Secondly, I'd wager that many of the users sign up to use Ashley Madison for the thrill of the idea and probably aren't actually cheaters themselves or hooki…

The arm-chair morality here is mindblowing. Reminds me of when homosexuals developed aids in the 80s; "Serves them right." I think people need to really stop it with the revenge fantasies for behaviors they dislike. If anything, AM reflects something that might change in society, namely if life-long monogamy makes sense. Many would argue that of course it does, but not too long ago these were the same people calling…

If anything, AM reflects something that might change in society, namely if life-long monogamy makes sense.

The time for that discussion is long before one decides of their own free will to take part in life-long monogamy. Once you've made that promise, and then renege on it (a harmful act in of itself), there is a second person in that equation who is being harmed.

Are innocent people likely to be harmed by this? Of course. But AM's entire reason for existing is perpetuation of marital infidelity. Given that AM's advertising emphasizes the "go have an affair!" business, we can reasonably assume that most of this company's clientele are people who are in committed relationships.

I find it very hard to be bothered by the fact that the majority of that site's customer base will be called to account for grave lies to their spouse.

(I was going to make an admonishment to stop downvoting the guy above me, but then they added the completely unwarranted "neckbeardism" remark.. knock yourselves out, I guess)

(And then they added the further completely unwarranted remark about "judeo-christian" values... jeez dude...)

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#173

Post by richmarr » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 3:54 PM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #116

richmarr wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@Asbostos is victim-blaming and defending viglilantism. Anyone who supports the rule of law should want to see the perpetrator of this on trial. Maybe the company who was breached should also be in court, but that's a different matter entirely.

I'm not sure Asbostos doesn't want to see the perpetrator of this on trial, they're just saying that the victim was immoral (and I'm not terribly sorry for them either). I am also not convinced that vigilantism is always wrong. I can't blame the villagers who, after seeing a restaurant owner entice a dog with food only to kill it with a chair, never stepped foot in the restaurant again, effectively bankrupting it.

  I'm not sure Asbostos doesn't want to...

Sure, I'll concede an assumption there.

  I am also not convinced that vigilantism is always wrong

'Wrong' is subjective so that statement is a truism. For a given act of vigilantism there will be a proportion who condone it and a proportion who don't. Who decides?

That's what the law is for. It's so we can't all just wander about dispensing 'justice' without accountability. What happens if someone commits suicide because of this hack? Can their kids sue the people responsible? No, they're denied due process.

I'm not convinced that law enforcement conducted by the proper authorities is always right, but at least we have some semblence of oversight and accountability and the opportunity to learn from mistakes and improve things.

Don't you think it's inconsistent that the hackers themselves are hugely critical of the company they breached for not properly deleting customer data on request; and yet those same people have already started publishing that exact same customer data? They're not even accountable to their own definition of right and wrong.

  I can't blame the villagers who, after seeing a 
  restaurant owner entice a dog with food only to 
  kill it with a chair, never stepped foot in the 
  restaurant again, effectively bankrupting it.

I don't think that fits the definition of vigilantism. Vigilantism is law enforcement undertaken by those without society's authority to do so. What you described above is simple consumer choice, a boycott at worst.

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#174

Post by aetherson » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 3:57 PM UTC

jdalgetty wrote: post #141

It get's me that so many people are basically saying it serves these people right for using the service. I don't think that it matters that this is a "cheating" site, your privacy should still be guarded and it's not fair that all these people are being exposed. Secondly, I'd wager that many of the users sign up to use Ashley Madison for the thrill of the idea and probably aren't actually cheaters themselves or hooki…

Lots of people who use the site may be "innocent" (because they didn't actually do anything, or because they're in an open marriage or whatever). And even people who are to one degree or other "guilty" are not as a class to be declared guilty and given all the same punishment.

That said, while I can't necessarily judge any given user of the site, I'm pretty confident that the people running the site are contributing to net misery in the world. And certainly I think that it would fall within the realm of justice for them to be (at least!) forced to turn the site off.

But I don't think that's the most likely outcome.

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#175

Post by davemel37 » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 3:58 PM UTC

crikli wrote: post #148

spacemanmatt wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or an open relationship. There are many options people may choose.

Tobias: You know, Lindsay, as a therapist, I have advised a number of couples to explore an open relationship where the couple remains emotionally committed, but free to explore extra-marital encounters. Lindsay: Well, did it work for those people? Tobias: No, it never does. I mean, these people somehow delude themselves into thinking it might, but ... But it might work for us.

This is my all time favorite scene in Arrested Development...

"But in our case...i think it might!"

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#176

Post by coldcode » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 3:59 PM UTC

People get hacked all the time but the data these folks failed to defend is almost as bad as what the Feds lost. You can always repair your credit, get new cards, even replace your money but you can never ever get back your reputation or your family or the respect of others if you lose that. But giving such a site this type of information (even if you were only curious) is just asking for it to become public. The consequences can range from embarrassment to divorce to losing children or even getting murdered. Whatever the thrill it's not worth the risk.

I don't know how to implement such a thing, but failing to protect people's information seems like it should be prosecutable. Maybe it's an impossibility but I don't know how else to make people care about protecting private information.

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#177

Post by Karunamon » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 3:59 PM UTC

spacemanmatt wrote: post #164

crikli wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tobias: You know, Lindsay, as a therapist, I have advised a number of couples to explore an open relationship where the couple remains emotionally committed, but free to explore extra-marital encounters. Lindsay: Well, did it work for those people? Tobias: No, it never does. I mean, these people somehow delude themselves into thinking it might, but ... But it might work for us.

Heh. Some people aren't up to it.

It requires a completely different mindset to relationships, most importantly, two people with that same completely different mindset, it's counter to most culture and how most of us were raised, but it can and does work.

Also, I find interesting the survivorship (or perhaps anti-survivorship?) bias in a marital counselor talking about how a certain arrangement doesn't work.. what about all those people who never sought counseling because their relationships are happy?

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#178

Post by oalders » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 3:59 PM UTC

crikli wrote: post #148

spacemanmatt wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or an open relationship. There are many options people may choose.

Tobias: You know, Lindsay, as a therapist, I have advised a number of couples to explore an open relationship where the couple remains emotionally committed, but free to explore extra-marital encounters. Lindsay: Well, did it work for those people? Tobias: No, it never does. I mean, these people somehow delude themselves into thinking it might, but ... But it might work for us.

"Tobias, you blowhard!"

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#179

Post by netcan » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 4:00 PM UTC

jdalgetty wrote: post #141

It get's me that so many people are basically saying it serves these people right for using the service. I don't think that it matters that this is a "cheating" site, your privacy should still be guarded and it's not fair that all these people are being exposed. Secondly, I'd wager that many of the users sign up to use Ashley Madison for the thrill of the idea and probably aren't actually cheaters themselves or hooki…

Adding to that, we need to be especially wary of righteous belligerence targeting sexual immorality. We have an ancient and rarely broken tradition of ruining people by accusing them of sexual misbehavior. Infidelity, promiscuity, homosexuality. OScar Wilde & Alan Turing come to mind, from an endless list.

Re: Online Cheating Site AshleyMadison Hacked

#180

Post by jaawn » Mon, Jul 20, 2015, 4:00 PM UTC

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #165

jdalgetty wrote: post #141

It get's me that so many people are basically saying it serves these people right for using the service. I don't think that it matters that this is a "cheating" site, your privacy should still be guarded and it's not fair that all these people are being exposed. Secondly, I'd wager that many of the users sign up to use Ashley Madison for the thrill of the idea and probably aren't actually cheaters themselves or hooki…

The arm-chair morality here is mindblowing. Reminds me of when homosexuals developed aids in the 80s; "Serves them right." I think people need to really stop it with the revenge fantasies for behaviors they dislike. If anything, AM reflects something that might change in society, namely if life-long monogamy makes sense. Many would argue that of course it does, but not too long ago these were the same people calling…

I would completely agree if the site were geared toward open relationships, but it is built on assisting people harm their partners in secrecy. It has nothing to do with the monogamy issue.

Basically, there are a few truths we know about users of the site: 1. They are in a committed relationship (or seeking someone who is) 2. They are unfulfilled. 3. Those in a committed relationship do not want their partner to know about their activities (because it would hurt them)

It is the 3rd item that changes things a bit with this specific site. The unaware partners should be valued as much as the users of the site, but the site enables its users to put themselves above their partners in a way.

It is perfectly valid to criticize monogamy or to support equal treatment for people in different types of relationships, but Ashley Madison is built to help people indulge at the expense of another "innocent" person, and I think that makes it not okay. I don't necessarily think the hackers are "justified," but I do think it is understandable to feel less sympathy for the victims in this case.