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The self-hating web developer

joequery.me

201–210 of 214 posts

Re: The self-hating web developer

#201

For something fun yet with that elusive 'real programming' edge, play around with Rust.

I love that your response to someone saying they lost their confidence in the pursuit of new technology for its own sake is to recommend a new technology to learn.

Rust can be used for web programming, when it's a very "real programmers" language, so they response is perfectly valid.

Re: The self-hating web developer

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair point, I bring Bootstrap up as an example of how frequently the actual frameworks relied on to build things on the web change. A better example of is the endless paradigms popping up to handle highly interactive javascript. RE: NoSQL and SQL, I agree and I understand the nuance (my go-to database is PostgreSQL), I'm just pointing it out as "another thing" web developers need to understand. And that's the point I…

When it comes to how many "other things" web developers must constantly be learning The reason for learning many of these "other things" is precisely because of your limitations to the confines of the browser's VM, where all superior OS APIs must be poorly reimplemented (Web Workers, local/session storage, WebSockets, WebAudio, the file API, etc.) to get around the fact that the web was designed as a file server for…

You're completely right that the problem comes from being trapped inside the browser's VM. Anyone building a highly interactive single page Javascript app definitely has their work cut out for them.

It's funny, but in some ways web development has actually regressed in terms of difficultly. 10 years ago before its death, browser plugins like Flash actually made a lot of inroads towards making it easier to build highly interactive web experiences.

The current shift towards Javascript has arguably left developers with a weaker set of tools for producing dynamic experiences than they had with Flash even if Flash really did need to die.

Re: The self-hating web developer

#203
post #20

There are few things in life more important than choosing one's peer group well. The Internet gives you many more options than we had available prior to the existence of it. Choose wisely and re-evaluate that choice periodically to see whether your peer group continues to represent your goals and values. Why? Your peer group literally gets arbitrary code execution on your brain. (It's a flaw in MonkeyBrainOS 1.01 whi…

May I quote your first two paragraphs? I have a few people starting out as programmers who really need that kind of language to get that point to them.

Those are great, however I think "arbitrary code execution" in MonkeyBrainOS is not a flaw but working as intended. Better think twice before patching it, it may be part of this feature called empathy.

Re: The self-hating web developer

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haskell us perfectly fine to start with. It's just Haskell + zsh + git + archlinux + vim + cool-tech aren't things you should learn all at once. Heck, 12 years in, and I'm still lot fluent in all of those. We can still tell people about cool stuff, just encourage them to take one step at a time, in their own time.

Advice to start learning programming from Haskell or Lisp or C++ is arrogance.

Pefectly fine I one takes full responsibility for own advice.

Re: The self-hating web developer

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Momentum is the thing that truly matters. That's certainly true. You learn by doing stuff. But PHP actually is a bad language, and the guy would be better off starting with something else. Why use PHP for X years until you realize you need to move on, when you could start out with something you can still use even after that point? Even worse, he could get stuck using PHP because it's comfortable and he's used to deal…

> why use php for x years? You don't have to use it for years. It doesn't take that long to grasp, then you can start learning other stuff. The important thing is to get moving.

Alright, why use it for even five days, when you could be using something that's not a dead-end (or detrimental) for your development as a programmer?

You can get moving with a good language instead, which was my point.

Re: The self-hating web developer

#206
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your definition is completely worthless, then. Someone writing Java EE apps is then a "low-level programmer", which is totally wrong. In fact, ATMs these days more often than not have full operating systems like Windows CE with the software being a Java app that communicates over some standardized XML-based middleware to access ATM system and transaction mechanisms.

Not much left for low-level programmers to do then :)

Kernel hacking, drivers, virtualization, FPGAs/ASICs, compilers/linkers/toolchains, bootloaders, firmware, debuggers, databases, shells, process managers, etc. etc.

There's plenty. Generally if you don't have to worry too intimately about VMM semantics, you probably aren't doing low-level.

Re: The self-hating web developer

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haskell us perfectly fine to start with. It's just Haskell + zsh + git + archlinux + vim + cool-tech aren't things you should learn all at once. Heck, 12 years in, and I'm still lot fluent in all of those. We can still tell people about cool stuff, just encourage them to take one step at a time, in their own time.

Advice to start learning programming from Haskell or Lisp or C++ is arrogance.

How so? I'd appreciate you expanding on it, as well as responding to the existence of these:

Teaching Haskell to a 10 year old[0]

Realm of Racket[1]

Land of lisp[2]

0: https://superginbaby.wordpress.com/2015/04/08/teaching-haske...

1: http://realmofracket.com/

2: http://landoflisp.com/

Re: The self-hating web developer

#208
You know what I love about PHP? My six-figure salary. If you're making more than $150 grand or doing Haskell, I'm willing to listen. Otherwise, I care less than a squat about anyone's opinion of PHP.

I'm not pretending to be Alan Turing or Bill Gates or whomever, but I make a very good living, provide a valuable service, and I'm grateful for it.

Re: The self-hating web developer

#209
There's proactive and reactive aggression. Proactive aggression is the typical bullying of others based on what programming they do. It's basically just another way to pat yourself on the back, and people eat that shit up.

Re: The self-hating web developer

#210
post #47
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we disregard "It's hard to get excited about this," which is just parent's subjective opinion, I think it's a plausible criticism of the field. Do you think it is wrong, and could you back it up?

Yes, I can back up that this "plausible criticism of the industry" has no roots in reality whatsoever. >Sign: "It has been [0] days since the last new Javascript framework." Web developers must run very hard to stay in the same place. We are talking about front end frameworks here, right? Ok, here is data for usage of front-end frameworks for a top million websites: Angular is used on 0.4% [0] Ember is used on React…

I appreciate your refutation.
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