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The Gluglug – GNU/Linux laptop with libreboot firmware

shop.gluglug.org.uk

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Re: The Gluglug – GNU/Linux laptop with libreboot firmware

#61

Post by Sanddancer »

shmerl wrote: post #53

I wish more common laptops would have replaceable firmware, like Lenovo and the like. Having all those blobs with who knows what is very annoying. Especially when that firmware starts behaving as if it owns your computer, and refuses to boot because "WiFi card is not authorized" or some other such idiocy.

A lot of systems use fairly off-the-shelf bioses, that have lots of tools available for them that were intended for OEMs to do the minor, annoying tweaks that you described. There are sites [1] that specialize in discussing and using these sorts of tools. I had a lenovo laptop that behaved a lot like that, and was going to use a modded bios to fix it, but discovered that an updated bios actually had a bug in the halt code, so it would claim to halt, but five seconds later would continue the boot process.

[1] https://www.bios-mods.com/downloads/

Re: The Gluglug – GNU/Linux laptop with libreboot firmware

#62

Post by shmerl »

Sanddancer wrote: post #61
shmerl wrote: post #53

I wish more common laptops would have replaceable firmware, like Lenovo and the like. Having all those blobs with who knows what is very annoying. Especially when that firmware starts behaving as if it owns your computer, and refuses to boot because "WiFi card is not authorized" or some other such idiocy.

A lot of systems use fairly off-the-shelf bioses, that have lots of tools available for them that were intended for OEMs to do the minor, annoying tweaks that you described. There are sites [1] that specialize in discussing and using these sorts of tools. I had a lenovo laptop that behaved a lot like that, and was going to use a modded bios to fix it, but discovered that an updated bios actually had a bug in the halt…

Interesting, thanks for the pointer. Nothing there on my laptop though, but I guess the firmware can be shared between many models.

Re: The Gluglug – GNU/Linux laptop with libreboot firmware

#63

Post by na85 »

yuhong wrote: post #57
shmerl wrote: post #53

I wish more common laptops would have replaceable firmware, like Lenovo and the like. Having all those blobs with who knows what is very annoying. Especially when that firmware starts behaving as if it owns your computer, and refuses to boot because "WiFi card is not authorized" or some other such idiocy.

Yea, I don't like Intel Boot Guard for that reason, and I think this is more important than being "100% FOSS" or the like. I once suggested allowing it to be disabled using a jumper or the like.

Physical write jumpers would solve 99% of firmware security issues and significantly reduce the attack surface of modern computers. APTs can't really manifest unless they come pre-installed.

Then again, NSA and other state actors wouldn't be able to implant malware into those areas without physical access.

I wonder why we don't have physical jumpers.

Re: The Gluglug – GNU/Linux laptop with libreboot firmware

#66

Post by pmontra »

superfunc wrote: post #17
jszymborski wrote: post #8

Very neat, but it's specs are a little lack-lustre: Core 2 Duo P8400 2.26GHz processor or higher Graphics: Intel GMA 4500MHD Screen: 12.1" 1280×800 TFT LCD Gigabit ethernet as standard Ports: 1x VGA, 3x USB 2.0, 5-in-1 card reader, 1x Headphone, 1x Microphone, 1x Gigabit Ethernet, 1x ExpressCard/54 Size: 11.6 x 9.2 x 0.8 inches Weight: 1.7 Kg Upgraded with an 802.11n wireless card (Atheros AR5B95, AR9285 chipset), en…

True, but for a lot of programming work its sufficient and relatively cheap.

I confirm. I had a machine similar to that one up to 18 month ago. It was fast enough to develop web applications (Rails, JavaScript). The only problem was the RAM limit at 4 GB. I replaced it with a ZBook 15 with 16 GB RAM. It's faster, so doing the same kind of work becomes more convenient, but the main advantage is not to have to close some programs to start another one. That's particularly handy when working with virtual machines or multiple browsers.

Re: The Gluglug – GNU/Linux laptop with libreboot firmware

#68

Post by yitchelle »

Am I being too cynical when I say that the laptop you and I use will never be a 100% totally free. There will always be a blob on some sort in there. The most obvious one is the processor. With my naive knowledge of processor implementation, it's functionality is implemented in code more primitive than microcode. Is the source for this available for inspection?

There will be plenty of other devices in the laptop where its implementation domain is blurred.

Having said that, the Gluglug is a shuffle in the right direction.

Re: The Gluglug – GNU/Linux laptop with libreboot firmware

#69

Post by kogepathic »

userbinator wrote: post #18
jszymborski wrote: post #8

Very neat, but it's specs are a little lack-lustre: Core 2 Duo P8400 2.26GHz processor or higher Graphics: Intel GMA 4500MHD Screen: 12.1" 1280×800 TFT LCD Gigabit ethernet as standard Ports: 1x VGA, 3x USB 2.0, 5-in-1 card reader, 1x Headphone, 1x Microphone, 1x Gigabit Ethernet, 1x ExpressCard/54 Size: 11.6 x 9.2 x 0.8 inches Weight: 1.7 Kg Upgraded with an 802.11n wireless card (Atheros AR5B95, AR9285 chipset), en…

That CPU is still much faster than some of the newer Atoms, for example: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core2+Duo+P840... http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Atom+Z3735F+%4... http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Atom+C2338+%40... http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Atom+E3845+%40... (Look at the single-thread rating and you'll see that a single Core 2 core is 2-3x faster t…

You're comparing apples to oranges here. Yes, everything you listed is an Intel x86 part, but the Z3735F is the CPU in my Windows 8 tablet, which has a 4W "SDP" (scenario design power).

The P8400 has a TDP of 25W, or about 6 times the heat dissipation of the Z series atom. So of course the Core 2 can beat an Atom, it's in a completely different category of processor.

If you are going to compare apples to apples, pick the i5 2410M. It's not a new part, but the TDP is comparable to the P8400, and the target market (12.5-15" laptops) is the same.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-2410M+...

Here you can see that the newer laptop-class CPUs out perform the Core 2 by a factor of 2. Couple this with much better integrated graphics, and newer memory (4GB DDR2 SODIMMs exist but compatibility is spotty and they're quite expensive) and it's not really a contest anymore, the newer CPU/chipset provide better performance and will give you longer battery life.

I am not going to claim I am one of those people who needs a powerful processor in my laptop, because 90% of what I do is login to remote servers who do the work much faster than my laptop ever could. But, I do enjoy getting 5-8 hours of battery life thanks to my newer processor sipping electrons when idle, which cannot be said for Core 2 era systems.

Re: The Gluglug – GNU/Linux laptop with libreboot firmware

#70

Post by leni536 »

I always thought that it would be nice to handle your essential private keys (PGP master key, large bitcoin wallet) on a fully free hardware. Of course free software still can be compromised but at least you could be certain to a degree that your hardware doesn't come compromised out of the box (sure, you have to trust your "fully free hardware supplier" here).
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