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USA tops International Math Olympiad for first time in 21 years

washingtonpost.com

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Re: USA tops International Math Olympiad for first time in 21 years

#61

Post by hamstergene »

calibraxis wrote: post #22
ratsmack wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying that it would be good if the ones sent were based on a gender balance rather than being chosen on their math ability?

Intentionally uncharitable interpretation. More likely that the other teams (and the systems backing them) privileged guys, instead of educating and choosing on math ability.

What makes you think that is more likely?

In 2013, it was Finland and Costa Rica whose teams were "gender balanced", not Ukraine and Bosnia&Herzegovina. In 2012, Bolivia. In 2009, Kuwait.

Previous years stats don't suggest their education systems are anyhow different, it's just how this year's random has laid out.

Re: USA tops International Math Olympiad for first time in 21 years

#62

Post by yumadbro »

RA_Fisher wrote: post #42
fijal wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You usually send them based on performance in national comp, so there is no subjective selection, you just have to make it to top 5

Tests are written by people and their biases recognized or unrecognized will end up in tests. What about the way math is taught? Or the perceptions of gender differentials in math? I'm thankful that I have the privilege of not being told that my gender was a handicap for my field (statistics).

Maybe women just suck at math, have you considered that one?

Re: USA tops International Math Olympiad for first time in 21 years

#63

Post by blahblah3 »

overpaidgoogler wrote: post #10
helmett wrote: post #4

congratulation...I see a hedge fund career for many

I hope not. When I did math Olympiads (including the IMO) I was presented with a false dichotomy of pure math or finance. This is really unfortunate because finance in general does not use very deep math. A tiny number of people might use SDEs but by now the techniques are standard and boring anyway. Furthermore, even mainstream economists doubt that this sort of finance has positive externalities. The amount of reso…

the transition from pure math to the application of statistics to the real world (or science) requires a philosophical adjustment.

In math, the model and axioms are sound (by definition) within the mathematician's world.

However, in order to make judgments about reality by using statistics, one has to come up with reasonable models and assumptions, otherwise the resulting deductions can be worthless. The leads to a lot of subjectivity and grey areas for debate that a mathematician may not be accustomed to.

Re: USA tops International Math Olympiad for first time in 21 years

#64

Post by chestervonwinch »

rtpg wrote: post #20
overpaidgoogler wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope not. When I did math Olympiads (including the IMO) I was presented with a false dichotomy of pure math or finance. This is really unfortunate because finance in general does not use very deep math. A tiny number of people might use SDEs but by now the techniques are standard and boring anyway. Furthermore, even mainstream economists doubt that this sort of finance has positive externalities. The amount of reso…

As someone who neglected statistics as a student ( topology was a lot funner) , would you have any recommendations for self-learning tools for statistics?

Casella & Berger's "Statistical Inference" is a nice introduction to basic probability theory and statistics. I found it pretty readable, and it's used for many 1st year graduate stat programs.

Duda & Hart's "Pattern Classification" is one of the best introductions to machine learning IMO. It assumes very little in the way prerequisites, which is nice for first time exposure.

Hastie & Tibshirani's "Elements of Statistical Learning" can be a little intimidating without having been exposed to the ideas of the previous two texts. Afterwards, however, it is a gem.

Re: USA tops International Math Olympiad for first time in 21 years

#65

Post by imh »

Moshe_Silnorin wrote: post #41
Tinyyy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy is being sarcastic, I don’t really understand the down votes. Maybe that’s just the way it is over here.

I skimmed over it without reading the "Poe's law" line at the end. I've deleted my comment. Have to be more careful.

I think that line is new. I saw it earlier this morning and seriously debated whether or not it was serious.

Re: USA tops International Math Olympiad for first time in 21 years

#66

Post by yumadbro »

RA_Fisher wrote: post #59
blahblah3 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Tests are written by people and their biases recognized or unrecognized will end up in tests" Honestly I have an extremely hard time imagining how math exams are gender biased. Have you even taken a look at this year or past imo's? You're speaking completely hypothetically and it sounds like nonsense. Here is problem 2: Determine all triples (a,b,c) of positive integers such that each of the numbers ab-c,bc-a,ca-b i…

Sure, but I doubt the same is true for all of the tests and educational materials that preceded this particular test. Or, or perhaps the teachers. Women are commonly beat down and told they suck and are inferior to men in STEM areas or tokenized or marginalized. All I'm asking for is that we examine, "why might a gender imbalance exist?"

Have you considered the possibility that women are mentally inferior at math, like the same way they have inferior spatial awareness, and physical strength.

What do want to do? Sue god for sexism?

The way you handle this cognitive dissonance is fascinating.

Re: USA tops International Math Olympiad for first time in 21 years

#67

Post by jazzyk »

DanBC wrote: post #53
Tinyyy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy is being sarcastic, I don’t really understand the down votes. Maybe that’s just the way it is over here.

It's a pointlessly baity answer and deserves downvoting.

Respectfully disagree. He ridicules the simplistic solutions proposed to certain issues (lack of women in a math competition in this case). In my opinion, it adds a valid (and funny) point - you may agree or disagree with him, but it is not a reason to downvote. Sarcastic - yes, ad hominem - no.

Re: USA tops International Math Olympiad for first time in 21 years

#68

Post by bilbo0s »

archlight wrote: post #32

it is a good news. because American become more confident in educating their kids in maths and abandon the idea that you can be lawyer if you are not good at math. on the other hand, Chinese can stop believing that math is highest form of intelligence and pursue career as lawyer etc.

???

Wouldn't it be better for mankind ... if as many people like these kids as possible pursued math and science more vigorously ??? Especially kids like these, who have what I would term "creative" intelligence.

Why would we want those people in law ??? That gives us far less than having them in math and science. And we will get the MOST by having them in art AND math and science. Then we'd really get their creativity going as they look for solutions to problems.

Re: USA tops International Math Olympiad for first time in 21 years

#69

Post by bkcooper »

rtpg wrote: post #20
overpaidgoogler wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope not. When I did math Olympiads (including the IMO) I was presented with a false dichotomy of pure math or finance. This is really unfortunate because finance in general does not use very deep math. A tiny number of people might use SDEs but by now the techniques are standard and boring anyway. Furthermore, even mainstream economists doubt that this sort of finance has positive externalities. The amount of reso…

As someone who neglected statistics as a student ( topology was a lot funner) , would you have any recommendations for self-learning tools for statistics?

I haven't finished it yet, but what I've read of Wasserman's All of Statistics I've liked. The chapters are a bit terse, so I'd plan on doing a bunch of the exercises. The good news is that there are lots of exercises and most of them feel well chosen.

Re: USA tops International Math Olympiad for first time in 21 years

#70

Post by netvarun »

helmett wrote: post #4

congratulation...I see a hedge fund career for many

There was an interesting article that looked at what the USA Mathematical olympiad trainee candidates in 1980 were doing now (This batch included the famous Noam Elkies) -

http://andrewgelman.com/2015/03/17/1980-math-olympiad-progra...

HN Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9225683

A bunch of them went into academia, though not necessarily pure math. Some became engineers and only one ended up in finance.

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