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USA tops International Math Olympiad for first time in 21 years

washingtonpost.com

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Re: USA tops International Math Olympiad for first time in 21 years

#41

Post by Moshe_Silnorin »

Tinyyy wrote: post #39
booop wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't believe the audacity of Po-Shen Loh to send a team exclusively of boys to the IMO. When you have to select 6 team members how can you NOT select at least 1 female? This flies in the face of all the outreach work people have been doing to get more girls into STEM, and this victory will only discourage them. It appears the top 3 teams are all 100% boys. I'm delighted that this is currently the top comment here.…

This guy is being sarcastic, I don’t really understand the down votes. Maybe that’s just the way it is over here.

I skimmed over it without reading the "Poe's law" line at the end. I've deleted my comment. Have to be more careful.

Re: USA tops International Math Olympiad for first time in 21 years

#42

Post by RA_Fisher »

fijal wrote: post #37
booop wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't believe the audacity of Po-Shen Loh to send a team exclusively of boys to the IMO. When you have to select 6 team members how can you NOT select at least 1 female? This flies in the face of all the outreach work people have been doing to get more girls into STEM, and this victory will only discourage them. It appears the top 3 teams are all 100% boys. I'm delighted that this is currently the top comment here.…

You usually send them based on performance in national comp, so there is no subjective selection, you just have to make it to top 5

Tests are written by people and their biases recognized or unrecognized will end up in tests. What about the way math is taught? Or the perceptions of gender differentials in math? I'm thankful that I have the privilege of not being told that my gender was a handicap for my field (statistics).

Re: USA tops International Math Olympiad for first time in 21 years

#43

Post by RA_Fisher »

ratsmack wrote: post #17
nemoniac wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congratulations to Ukraine and Bosnia-Herzegovina for being the only countries to send gender-balanced teams of three boys and three girls.

Are you implying that it would be good if the ones sent were based on a gender balance rather than being chosen on their math ability?

It could be that the concept of math ability itself is currently defined to preference a gender. Or, taught in a way to preference gender. Or a gender is ridiculed systematically during the learning process. It's not so simple.

Re: USA tops International Math Olympiad for first time in 21 years

#44

Post by Moshe_Silnorin »

RA_Fisher wrote: post #42
fijal wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You usually send them based on performance in national comp, so there is no subjective selection, you just have to make it to top 5

Tests are written by people and their biases recognized or unrecognized will end up in tests. What about the way math is taught? Or the perceptions of gender differentials in math? I'm thankful that I have the privilege of not being told that my gender was a handicap for my field (statistics).

How could mathematical tests be biased? I mean, math is math is math. What would a non-biased math test even look like?

Re: USA tops International Math Olympiad for first time in 21 years

#45

Post by madez »

wbhart wrote: post #8
helmett wrote: post #4

congratulation...I see a hedge fund career for many

A good proportion of maths olympians go into mathematics in academia rather than into industry. Industry does need problem solvers, but maths olympians develop creativity and a sense of elegance and beauty as well. Industry requires efficient solutions to technical problems, more than elegant or beautiful ones, at least relative to what is possible with full academic freedom.

As a minor nitpick, some mathematicians see elegance in efficient solutions. It's interesting to get your head around a specific problem and come up with the solution that is optimal regarding some given metric.

However, I agree that industry and mathematics are not best friends. That's because mathematicians righteously demand and require a level of freedom and support the industry is not always willing to give because of the social problem it creates with other employees and because the value of the work of a mathematician can be too hard to judge.

From my experience, the fight to get the working conditions you need is not worth it. My advise to fellow mathematicians is that — when you want go into the industry — to go where there are already mathematicians.

Re: USA tops International Math Olympiad for first time in 21 years

#46

Post by RA_Fisher »

Moshe_Silnorin wrote: post #44
RA_Fisher wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tests are written by people and their biases recognized or unrecognized will end up in tests. What about the way math is taught? Or the perceptions of gender differentials in math? I'm thankful that I have the privilege of not being told that my gender was a handicap for my field (statistics).

How could mathematical tests be biased? I mean, math is math is math. What would a non-biased math test even look like?

One simple way, just as a contrived counter-example are gendered questions or questions that assume gendered cultural capital.

Re: USA tops International Math Olympiad for first time in 21 years

#47

Post by [deleted] »

booop wrote: post #26
enimodas wrote: post #9

I looked a bit at the gender distribution for the gold and silver medalists, I would guess only 1 in 10-20 is a girl, most seemed to be from the eastern bloc countries.

I can't believe the audacity of Po-Shen Loh to send a team exclusively of boys to the IMO. When you have to select 6 team members how can you NOT select at least 1 female? This flies in the face of all the outreach work people have been doing to get more girls into STEM, and this victory will only discourage them. It appears the top 3 teams are all 100% boys. I'm delighted that this is currently the top comment here.…

[deleted]

Re: USA tops International Math Olympiad for first time in 21 years

#48

Post by overpaidgoogler »

enimodas wrote: post #9

I looked a bit at the gender distribution for the gold and silver medalists, I would guess only 1 in 10-20 is a girl, most seemed to be from the eastern bloc countries.

I would not read to much into it. This is a very specialized competition that selected 6 people from an entire country.

Some aspects of soviet education are very conducive to these competitions (e.g. an emphasis on euclidean geometry). Because of this, a top 10% student from a former Soviet country will do much better than a top 10% American if neither have extra training in this sort of competition.

If anyone is interested in discussing women in STEM in general, this article is a very poor place to do it. Eg the US has done extremely poorly up till now compared with similar English speaking country's. There are just so many idiosyncratic features at play.

Re: USA tops International Math Olympiad for first time in 21 years

#49

Post by Moshe_Silnorin »

RA_Fisher wrote: post #46
Moshe_Silnorin wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could mathematical tests be biased? I mean, math is math is math. What would a non-biased math test even look like?

One simple way, just as a contrived counter-example are gendered questions or questions that assume gendered cultural capital.

I'm not sure what that would look like. I mean whatever ornaments are in the word problem, the thing that matters is the math underneath. You seem to think female maths enthusiasts will get distracted by "gendered" ornamentation and find themselves unable to see the math underneath - which itself seems like an oddly sexist idea. Do you honestly think if we printed the tests on pink paper and made all the word problems about stereotypically feminine things, the results would change appreciatively. Isn't it possible that, on average, women are just less likely to be interested in mathematics competitions. Is this necessarily a bad thing so long as those that are are not discriminated against?

Edit: And as for your comment below, I'm unsure of what the particularities of Thai dress and ceremony has to to with the posited inherent sexism of maths tests. And honestly do you really think women avoid maths competitions because they might eventually meet some foreign women in traditional dress?

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