Homejoy says goodbye • Hacker News Board

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#251

Post by x0x0 » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 7:10 PM UTC

markbnj wrote: post #249

x0x0 wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but complaining their cleaner wasn't "passionate" mostly comes off as being pissy your poorly-paid short-term menial labor didn't fluff your ego enough for being so awesome to pay him or her. You can do a perfectly good job cleaning without pretending you're so passionate about cleaning you'd just love to do it for free! (I have similar complaints about development jobs, btw -- you can do a perfectly good job a…

I don't think the replies meant "passionate" as in "man I am so STOKED to clean your apartment, brah!" What they meant was "cares enough to do a good job."

Obviously not, because the OP enumerated passion and quality separately.

   You could really feel this with the lack of passion from the cleaners and 
   the severe lack of quality cleaning

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#252

Post by callmeed » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 7:10 PM UTC

Baghard wrote: post #228

callmeed wrote: post #133

So Forbes named Homejoy one of the hottest startups of 2013 (and they make a 30 under 30 list). They raise money from top-tier VCs and angels. Adora does quite a bit of speaking (it seems) on growth, regional expansion, and startup inspiration. They expanded to 30+ markets. But they were really just selling cleaning services for below cost–on the backs of 1099 workers. It's a worse model than Groupon and I can't fath…

I firmly believe this business model can work. I know of a local business that is going into its 6th year of operations. Cleaning houses is a large part of their revenues. They match house cleaners, handymen, grocery shoppers, cooks and assistants with professionals starved for time. The model is subscription-based and they have some large companies which give out these subscriptions as a bonus/perk to their employee…

You are comparing apples to potatoes. Every city has cleaning and janitorial service companies (I worked for one in high school). Obviously that model works. We pay our housekeeper $60/week and she's amazing.

What doesn't work is selling a service–cleaning or otherwise–for $20 when you have to pay the contractor $50 and a CAC of $12 (spitballing BTW).

At least Groupon shared the deal price with the restaurant and had some built-in virality.

At least Uber doesn't have to deal with drivers trying to end-around the marketplace and go directly at customers.

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#253

Post by ryandrake » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 7:10 PM UTC

trg2 wrote: post #85

smt88 wrote: post #4

No surprise there. Tone-deaf marketing and there was a horror story a few years ago about the culture.

I think that was Handybook (now Handy), not Homejoy, right? http://thebillfold.com/2014/10/my-day-interviewing-for-the-s...

Wow, please tell me this is a fictional company. This reads like a caricature of everything wrong with the Silicon Valley tech scene.

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#254

Post by uptown » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 7:10 PM UTC

x0x0 wrote: post #245

uptown wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and profitable Are they? Everything I've read indicates that they are not. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2015-06-30/uber-loses-m...

Actually, everything I've read says they are in mature cities . Leaked numbers say they're stupendously profitable in their oldest markets: nyc, sf, etc. They are losing money overall because they subsidize drivers when they move into new markets. But the key is always to look at existing markets. The quickest numbers I could find were leaked in 2014. est yearly rev run rate city ======================= ==== $212+mm…

I guess the larger question is how do drivers respond when their rates get dropped after a market is mature. I imagine the answer is different depending on the market.

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#255

Post by bryanlarsen » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 7:11 PM UTC

Problem A: good cleaners bypass your service, using you as a cheap referral service.

Problem B: paying cleaners as contractors is legally problematic.

The solution to both those problems is the same: hire your cleaners as employees. Then you can prevent them from free-lancing on the side in a competitive business. In states where a non-compete isn't enforceable (like California), I believe that you can still enforce it while they are employed by you.

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#256

Post by meatysnapper » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 7:13 PM UTC

markonthewall wrote: post #152

jasonwilk wrote: post #129

I wanted HomeJoy to work and tried to use the service a few times. What the failure came down to: 1. The cleaners were not professionals. It felt like they were just recruiting anyone who wanted a job. You could really feel this with the lack of passion from the cleaners and the severe lack of quality cleaning. Most of the people complained and were quite rude sometimes. Cleaning is very much a skill as much as it is…

> the lack of passion from the cleaners I doubt cleaning other people's shit is anyone's passion.

Go to Switzerland or Japan. Especially in the former, dirt anywhere is a national disgrace. The road crews take serious pride in the condition of the roads, for example.

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#257

Post by x0x0 » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 7:14 PM UTC

uptown wrote: post #254

x0x0 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, everything I've read says they are in mature cities . Leaked numbers say they're stupendously profitable in their oldest markets: nyc, sf, etc. They are losing money overall because they subsidize drivers when they move into new markets. But the key is always to look at existing markets. The quickest numbers I could find were leaked in 2014. est yearly rev run rate city ======================= ==== $212+mm…

I guess the larger question is how do drivers respond when their rates get dropped after a market is mature. I imagine the answer is different depending on the market.

Those above cities are, I believe, post rate drops. Also other leaked numbers have said Uber continues to grow. My guess is driver happiness doesn't impact Uber's business much; our economy seems to generate enough desperate people that they have a nearly never ending stream of people willing to drive for $5/hour (a reasonable estimate of an UberX driver's true net comp.)

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#258

Post by zaidf » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 7:14 PM UTC

qq66 wrote: post #178

zaidf wrote: post #146

My problem with Homejoy/Handy etc. is the high degree of unpredictability in the quality of each cleaning. My conclusion is that for something like home cleaning, you want to find a regular person -- not someone new each week. Our regular cleaner(which I found through nextdoor) recently had to quit. It was enough to upset me for a bit because finding a quality and consistent and affordable cleaner is very hard. Lucki…

> You don't want someone who is doing it as a past time to make some extra cash. That might work with Uber/driving Until your Uber driver takes a left turn onto Shoreline Boulevard without looking, and nearly kills you.

That is hardly an Uber problem. In fact, professional cab drivers are famous for dangerous driving. Example: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/taxi-driver-in...

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#259

Post by fweespeech » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 7:14 PM UTC

akshatpradhan wrote: post #242

jasonwilk wrote: post #129

I wanted HomeJoy to work and tried to use the service a few times. What the failure came down to: 1. The cleaners were not professionals. It felt like they were just recruiting anyone who wanted a job. You could really feel this with the lack of passion from the cleaners and the severe lack of quality cleaning. Most of the people complained and were quite rude sometimes. Cleaning is very much a skill as much as it is…

>1. The cleaners were not professionals. It felt like they were just recruiting anyone who wanted a job. You could really feel this with the lack of passion from the cleaners and the severe lack of quality cleaning. Most of the people complained and were quite rude sometimes. Cleaning is very much a skill as much as it is manual labor. For me personally, it felt they had little training of how to clean. Things like d…

> This. Very much. There was one guy that came into my apartment, and he was in the valuables room. Not much of a peep had gone by in 30 mins, so I checked in and I heard a drop of the jewelry box. He said he was just cleaning around and that an earring was missing and he was looking for it. I didn't say much because I was thinking in my mind what's he doing with an earring in the first place. I walk out the room and he says something like, "here it is, its put back". Its hard to describe in words, but the atmosphere was very uncomfortable at that point.

If you are letting strangers in your house, you lock up valuables they can walk out with. For someone who uses his HN profile to state he takes security seriously...you don't seem to take basic security measures.

Having any kind of employee [or contractor] is as much removing the easiest and most typical temptations as it is hiring the right person.

Jewelry boxes, cash, credit cards, etc. should have been locked up and out of sight.

Re: Homejoy says goodbye

#260

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Jul 17, 2015, 7:14 PM UTC

bryanlarsen wrote: post #255

Problem A: good cleaners bypass your service, using you as a cheap referral service. Problem B: paying cleaners as contractors is legally problematic. The solution to both those problems is the same: hire your cleaners as employees. Then you can prevent them from free-lancing on the side in a competitive business. In states where a non-compete isn't enforceable (like California), I believe that you can still enforce…

So, the solution is to be Merry Maids. Which is great (and, you know, exists already), but not exactly the kind of disruptive model that attracts VC money.