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The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

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Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#61

Post by Touche »

defilade wrote: post #59
Touche wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be incredibly wasteful. Double the cost of gas, double the environmental damage, much worse traffic because cars are going home by themselves with no passenger, then returning to get the passenger later.

Not really. In a future of self-driving cars most people won't even own their own car so most of these cars will be shared - essentially automated taxis. So after the car drops you off it will go to its next call or park somewhere until someone calls it.

Maybe in big cities where the wait time is short.

How is the car going to park itself? The grandparent's point was about how annoying trying to find a parking space is.

Can self-driving cars parallel park yet?

Can they detect a strip where parking is only allowed between 9-4 and it's 4:30? Can they detect fire lanes?

EDIT:

Also, are these automated taxis really going to be more affordable than owning your own car? Taxis are incredibly expensive today. Sure you save a lot of money when you don't have to pay a driver, but is it really enough to make car ownership undesirable?

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#62

Post by adamauckland »

ousta wrote: post #30

a quick question. heres the situation I am in a self driving car driving full speed on the highway, a little girl crosses the highway (highly unprobable but still possible) what will my car do? maintain high speed and kill her? or try to avoid her knowing that any attemps to avoid collision at this speed would likely injure me if not kill me? then how the car would react if it is a deer? then how the car will be 100%…

I don't know what speed you drive, but I had wildlife run out in front of me at 70mph (the speed limit).

I managed to reduce the speed to about 40 mph before hitting it by which time it didn't do too much damage.

Your peripheral vision can see stuff coming from the side quite well.

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#63

Post by 6d0debc071 »

Touche wrote: post #61
defilade wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. In a future of self-driving cars most people won't even own their own car so most of these cars will be shared - essentially automated taxis. So after the car drops you off it will go to its next call or park somewhere until someone calls it.

Maybe in big cities where the wait time is short. How is the car going to park itself? The grandparent's point was about how annoying trying to find a parking space is. Can self-driving cars parallel park yet? Can they detect a strip where parking is only allowed between 9-4 and it's 4:30? Can they detect fire lanes? EDIT: Also, are these automated taxis really going to be more affordable than owning your own car? Ta…

> Can self-driving cars parallel park yet?

Non-completely-self-driving cars can do that:

https://youtu.be/xpUqj_IHYp0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-rxJkVzUxI

:)

> Can they detect a strip where parking is only allowed between 9-4 and it's 4:30? Can they detect fire lanes?

I don't have specific examples, but I know that it's possible to read signs easily, (as in you can write a program to do it yourself with no great techno-wizardry,) and I don't see any reason they couldn't use that data.

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#64

Post by Touche »

6d0debc071 wrote: post #63
Touche wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe in big cities where the wait time is short. How is the car going to park itself? The grandparent's point was about how annoying trying to find a parking space is. Can self-driving cars parallel park yet? Can they detect a strip where parking is only allowed between 9-4 and it's 4:30? Can they detect fire lanes? EDIT: Also, are these automated taxis really going to be more affordable than owning your own car? Ta…

> Can self-driving cars parallel park yet? Non-completely-self-driving cars can do that: https://youtu.be/xpUqj_IHYp0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-rxJkVzUxI :) > Can they detect a strip where parking is only allowed between 9-4 and it's 4:30? Can they detect fire lanes? I don't have specific examples, but I know that it's possible to read signs easily, (as in you can write a program to do it yourself with no gre…

Yeah, sure, we can think of a far future where everything is automated but I think this discussion is more about the near future (near being when self-driving cars are for sale).

The logistics of parking go far beyond getting into the space. How does it pay the parking meter? How does it know if a parking lot is public or not, how does it pay for that? How does it know not to go into the unsafe neighborhood where wheels get stolen?

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#65

Post by magicalist »

seszett wrote: post #40
DanBC wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> stopped in a place other drivers might not expect You should expect drivers to stop at intersections. You should normally leave enough space between you and the car in front to avoid rear-end collision, even if that car stops suddenly. And there's already a signal the car in front has slowed - their brake lights come on. (Maybe that's not a US thing though?)

Well, for one people do not expect drivers to stop at a green light, like was the case here. You might wish everybody was well aware of their environment, but the fact is, a green light is a strong signal that makes people assume the other drivers are moving or are going to. The second point is completely off-topic, as the car in question had plenty of space between them and the Google car's rear-end. It just failed…

> Well, for one people do not expect drivers to stop at a green light, like was the case here.

er:

> The lane to the left of the Google AV was a left-turn-only lane. The vehicle waiting immediately behind the Google AV in the straight-only lane began to move forward when the green arrow left turn signal appeared (despite the signal for the straight-only lane remaining red) and collided with the rear bumper of the Google AV.

Are you talking about a different incident?

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#66

Post by rhino369 »

DanBC wrote: post #32
seszett wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being way too dismissive here. When stopped in a place other drivers might not expect, just flashing the brake lights does wonders. Probably because human eyes and brains notice change much more readily than a solid light.

> stopped in a place other drivers might not expect You should expect drivers to stop at intersections. You should normally leave enough space between you and the car in front to avoid rear-end collision, even if that car stops suddenly. And there's already a signal the car in front has slowed - their brake lights come on. (Maybe that's not a US thing though?)

Sure, hitting someone stopped is almost always the legal fault of the person rear-ending.

But that doesn't mean that Google is somehow off the hook. Google could invent a car that never causes crashes, but yet is still more dangerous than a human driver based on the inability to avoid crashes that humans easily avoid.

And, really it isn't hard to envision such a car being built. If it randomly hits the breaks to avoid phantom sensor readings, then the cars might be stopping in unexpected places an order of magnitude worse than a normal driver.

I'm sure driverless cars will eventually be safer than human, but I'm not convinced they will be.

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#67

Post by comex »

Touche wrote: post #61
defilade wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. In a future of self-driving cars most people won't even own their own car so most of these cars will be shared - essentially automated taxis. So after the car drops you off it will go to its next call or park somewhere until someone calls it.

Maybe in big cities where the wait time is short. How is the car going to park itself? The grandparent's point was about how annoying trying to find a parking space is. Can self-driving cars parallel park yet? Can they detect a strip where parking is only allowed between 9-4 and it's 4:30? Can they detect fire lanes? EDIT: Also, are these automated taxis really going to be more affordable than owning your own car? Ta…

The Google self driving car already relies on being fed a detailed map of everywhere it's going to drive. Adding things like fire lanes and parking restrictions to that should be relatively easy.

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#68

Post by thrownaway2424 »

daviddumenil wrote: post #25
300bps wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any attempt made to un-distract the driver? Flashing brake lights? Horn? This sounds too similar to victim blaming. In my opinion any action taken by someone who is about to be hit from behind in a low speed crash is likely to make the problem worse. I don't think that is the time to have a quick jerky motion into the shoulder of the road. Even honking the horn could distract or panic another driver that the…

There's a middle ground here where the car sees it's about to be rear-ended and softens the hold on the brakes just enough to convert some of the impact energy to forward motion. It knows the distance to the car in front and has a good idea of the rear car's speed. The only real variable is the weight of the approaching car but a pessimistic estimate could leave more margin to avoid touching the car in front.

That's the total opposite of what the car should do if it knows it's going to be rear ended. It should lock the brakes and tension the seat belts.

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#69

Post by twrkit »

One of my good friends is a veteran of the USMC, who served two tours in Afghanistan. While deployed, he sustained injuries to his hip and brain. As a result, his mobility is impaired, and he has lost half of his field of vision.

Until his town succumbed to the taxi lobby and banned ridesharing, he was able to run errands, get groceries, and take care of himself. Now, he is counting down the days in captivity, waiting until he can once again be self-sufficient thanks to autonomous vehicles. Keep up the great work, Google et al, and let's hope that day comes soon :)

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#70

Post by NathanKP »

Touche wrote: post #64
6d0debc071 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can self-driving cars parallel park yet? Non-completely-self-driving cars can do that: https://youtu.be/xpUqj_IHYp0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-rxJkVzUxI :) > Can they detect a strip where parking is only allowed between 9-4 and it's 4:30? Can they detect fire lanes? I don't have specific examples, but I know that it's possible to read signs easily, (as in you can write a program to do it yourself with no gre…

Yeah, sure, we can think of a far future where everything is automated but I think this discussion is more about the near future (near being when self-driving cars are for sale). The logistics of parking go far beyond getting into the space. How does it pay the parking meter? How does it know if a parking lot is public or not, how does it pay for that? How does it know not to go into the unsafe neighborhood where whe…

Compared to the logic involved in actually driving down the road safely these are all easy problems to solve.

But realistically they are problems that won't be had, because in the near future (and probably in the far future as well) most people aren't going to buy their own personal self driving car because not only are they expensive, but it is pointless to have a personal car when it is way more convenient to offload responsibility for the car ownership to someone else.

Instead they will use an app to summon an automated taxi car owned by a corporate entity (Google, Uber, etc), and when they are at their destination that car isn't going to park, it is going to be off to pick up another passenger.

The car owner will have designated secure parking lots for overflow cars that aren't needed out on the roads during non peak hours. The cars would return to that designated lot when not needed.

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