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If you've nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear

jacquesmattheij.com

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Re: If you've nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear

#311

Post by serf »

hguant wrote: post #249
serf wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I agree with the person you're replying to, but it makes some sense. (caveat: i'd never confront an intruder without my life or my families life in danger.) Guns have hosts of failure modes, and require specialized knowledge on their operation to ensure safety. Guns can even fire accidentally, with an accidental discharge on dropping the firearm being a possibility on any gun without a firing pin block (whic…

This comment made me get off my ass and remember my YC login. Your post parses correctly, but what you're saying doesn't really correspond with reality. > Guns can even fire accidentally, with an accidental discharge on dropping the firearm being a possibility on any gun without a firing pin block (which is practically any long gun, the kind you can buy at Walmart in some states, with no waiting period in some states…

> The biggest issue you aren't considering is that the biggest advantage of a gun is that you just have to have it. Power isn't shooting someone accurately - it's bringing a gun to a knife fight. Having a knife means you have to close to the target to engage - having a gun means I can stand back and project power.

Brandishing isn't something a gun is for, i'm sorry. It's an extraordinarily bad idea to use a gun as a tool for threatening a would-be attacker for both your health, and your legal well-being.[0][1]

> Furthermore, every firearm made in America in the last century has been certified as drop safe.

Single action revolvers have absolutely no safety other than the geometry of their design to prevent accidental discharge and (sometimes) an external safety. Here is the first list of them I found for sale readily on google.[2]

Here's a list of de-certified firearms [3], I'd like you to notice the amount of modern guns de-certified just last year for sale for being deemed unsafe (for these varied reasons[4]). I apologize for the CA-centric data, it was just easiest to find.

Competition shooting pistols often have absolutely no safety devices at all, and plenty are manufactured within the United States.

Many pistols are heirloomed or sold privately, those pistols are not required by law to conform to any safety standards, and can be sold indefinitely. Their high value nature aids the used gun economy, another incentive to have a gun sans modern safeties.[4 :relics and curios/heirloom footnote]

> Poppy cock. Modern firearms don't just go off [0].

Well, here's a blog post with enthusiasts arguing over that.[5] I have a few guns that were left to me by the deceased, but I am by no means an enthusiast.

Here's a blog-post that used wording similar to yours regarding the last century, but he describes drop-safe guns as 'a vast majority' rather than 'every', further explaining about which (modern) guns are never drop-safe.[6]

Now, let me say that I sincerely hope that someone who is going to take the effort to arm their house with a gun will do the homework to figure out a safe firearm to do so with, and with the proper training; but we don't live in that world. People will grab something convenient, just like anything else in life. That means cheap, old, or a knock-off.

[0]: http://www.secondcalldefense.org/self-defense-news/why-brand...

[1]: http://volokh.com/2010/02/12/if-you-brandish-a-gun-in-self-d...

[2]: http://www.gandermountain.com/Guns/New-Guns/New-Handguns/Sin...

[3]: http://oag.ca.gov/sites/oag.ca.gov/files/pdfs/firearms/remov...

[4]: http://smartgunlaws.org/design-safety-standards-for-handguns...

[5]: http://www.commongunsense.com/2010/09/can-guns-go-off-withou...

[6]: http://monderno.com/training/accidental-discharge-question/

Re: If you've nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear

#312

Post by maxerickson »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #301
maxerickson wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a capabilities standpoint, the latest wars have the very sophisticated armies showing an awful lot of self restraint. Another way of putting it is that the longevity of the insurgents probably says more about the mission that was handed to the military than it does about the ability of the military to deal with the tactics.

> very sophisticated armies showing an awful lot of > self restraint. Restraint how? Sure making the place an uninhabitable wasteland is within the realm of possibility with a sophisticated army but to what end?

Restraint in a literal sense. An uninhabitable wasteland is at the other end of a spectrum that starts with not worrying about killing civilians.

Re: If you've nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear

#313

Post by thelastguy »

"If you've nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear."

I agreed. Which is why I propose that for the safety of everyone, we station a cop inside everyone's home. After all, you never know when a burglary is gonna happen. With a cop inside everyone's home, you are guarantee safe when a burglary does happen.

Also, just to make sure you don't do anything illegal in the bathroom (like doing drugs), I propose that the cop must also be present with in the bathroom anytime anyone need to use the bathroom. After all, if you got nothing to hide, and you're not doing anything illegal in the bathroom, then you should not fear the cop being in the bathroom with you.

Re: If you've nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear

#314

Post by 67726e »

foldr wrote: post #224
67726e wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny part was, I didn't even own a gun for the break in or when I found the dude breaking into my neighbors house. In fact, I was lucky enough that there happened to be a cop driving by right as I ran out the door to try to grab his plate number. In the case of the carjacking, that happened to my boss when he pulled over to render assistance to a man who crashed his motorcycle. Him just trying to be a good Samaritan…

Given that your HN posting history mostly consists of you saying how you really want to join the army and kill people, can you honestly say that self defense was your primary motivation for buying a gun? It sounds to me like you want to use it. Your stories don't really support your position because everyone involved is still alive. If you'd had a gun, then at least one person could very well be dead as a result of c…

So now you're gonna go pick through months of comment history for a comment or two and take it out context? Why not evaluate how my love of Java and type-safety informs my desire for the segregation of society. You're probably one of those Twitter mob types that tries to get folks fired for their opinions, aren't you?

I bought a firearm because I like shooting little paper targets. I can legally carry a loaded firearm in my car, but I don't, so what does that tell you? I have a single handgun, so I must be a homicidal maniac, right?

Re: If you've nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear

#315

Post by Nadya »

rtb wrote: post #285
hguant wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment made me get off my ass and remember my YC login. Your post parses correctly, but what you're saying doesn't really correspond with reality. > Guns can even fire accidentally, with an accidental discharge on dropping the firearm being a possibility on any gun without a firing pin block (which is practically any long gun, the kind you can buy at Walmart in some states, with no waiting period in some states…

> bringing a gun to a knife fight I'm so glad I live in the UK where both criminals and self-defence is mostly knife based. I think the American style of "bringing a gun to a knife fight" just escalates everything. You think you need a gun in order to kill a would-be assailant. The OP says he used a knife to scare them off. I know which I prefer.

>You think you need a gun in order to kill a would-be assailant.

No. A gun also scares them off - and much better than a knife. A gun is an equalizer. Is an 85 year old lady with a knife going to be threatening to some young thug? Not likely. Will an 85 year old lady holding him at gunpoint be scary? Very.

[0] http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=5624360

Re: If you've nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear

#316

Post by MCRed »

vacri wrote: post #300
MCRed wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I could be wrong, and if that were the case, people would have arguments that point out the errors in my thinking. However, consistently, on Hacker News, and among leftists, instead of making arguments that refute my arguments with logic, facts or reason, they choose to do like you do-- and attack me personally. Since you can't argue to the point and you did argue to the person, and you downvoted to try and silen…

> they choose to do like you do-- and attack me personally. You are being a hypocrite. By saying "downvoters aren't critically thinking", you are attacking people who haven't even responded yet . You're setting up a pre-response trigger. It's an immature, adolescent way to debate. If you were a good at critical thinking as you say you are, you'd see that and understand why. > you downvoted to try and silence my opini…

More name calling, no argument. Plus you also lied about what I said, which shows you feel you need to deny reality, which means you know you're being anti-intellectual.

Thanks for proving my point.

Re: If you've nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear

#317

Post by foldr »

67726e wrote: post #314
foldr wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that your HN posting history mostly consists of you saying how you really want to join the army and kill people, can you honestly say that self defense was your primary motivation for buying a gun? It sounds to me like you want to use it. Your stories don't really support your position because everyone involved is still alive. If you'd had a gun, then at least one person could very well be dead as a result of c…

So now you're gonna go pick through months of comment history for a comment or two and take it out context? Why not evaluate how my love of Java and type-safety informs my desire for the segregation of society . You're probably one of those Twitter mob types that tries to get folks fired for their opinions, aren't you? I bought a firearm because I like shooting little paper targets. I can legally carry a loaded firea…

You said the following:

>I lust for the thought of besting other young men, I want to win, I want to be the one standing when the dust settles. Maybe it will sate that appetite, maybe it will give me some appreciation for the world that I lack. Who is to say? I don't feel the desire to go out and slay my fellow man, except in that one specific context.

You'll forgive me if I don't find the last sentence very reassuring!

Look, I know I'm not going to persuade you to stop loving guns. But do you realize how you come across? You come across as quite a literally a gun nut: a crazy, angry dude with a gun who can't wait for an opportunity to point it at someone. You are making the case for more gun regulation better than I ever could.

Re: If you've nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear

#318

Post by foldr »

Nadya wrote: post #315
rtb wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> bringing a gun to a knife fight I'm so glad I live in the UK where both criminals and self-defence is mostly knife based. I think the American style of "bringing a gun to a knife fight" just escalates everything. You think you need a gun in order to kill a would-be assailant. The OP says he used a knife to scare them off. I know which I prefer.

>You think you need a gun in order to kill a would-be assailant. No. A gun also scares them off - and much better than a knife. A gun is an equalizer. Is an 85 year old lady with a knife going to be threatening to some young thug? Not likely. Will an 85 year old lady holding him at gunpoint be scary? Very. [0] http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=5624360

Did you read the story? The woman held a 17 year old kid (who was already "cowering in a corner") at gunpoint.

"Smith made the burglar call 911 as she kept her firearm pointed at him."

We're always hearing stories about "responsible gun owners". Well, how responsible is that? It's basically guns 101 that you don't point unless you intend to shoot. Luckily she didn't end up killing the kid, but it could quite easily have happened.

Re: If you've nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear

#319

Post by TeMPOraL »

Nadya wrote: post #315
rtb wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> bringing a gun to a knife fight I'm so glad I live in the UK where both criminals and self-defence is mostly knife based. I think the American style of "bringing a gun to a knife fight" just escalates everything. You think you need a gun in order to kill a would-be assailant. The OP says he used a knife to scare them off. I know which I prefer.

>You think you need a gun in order to kill a would-be assailant. No. A gun also scares them off - and much better than a knife. A gun is an equalizer. Is an 85 year old lady with a knife going to be threatening to some young thug? Not likely. Will an 85 year old lady holding him at gunpoint be scary? Very. [0] http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=5624360

I think the GP's point is - if the assailant expects the homeowner to have a gun, he'll bring his own with him. Now you have two guns on the scene (the escalation GP mentioned), which seems to me to be strictly worse than having no guns on the scene, only if because it's easier to kill someone in a panic with a firearm than with a meelee weapon.

Re: If you've nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear

#320

Post by ux-app »

chinpokomon wrote: post #309
ux-app wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Humans will make mistakes; that's a fact of life. I agree. This is a fact of life. This combined with the utterly vanishingly tiny chance that you will be the victim of a serial killer make gun ownership for the purpose of safety absurd. Own a gun all you want. But at least realize that you and your family are actually less safe because of it!

You're making incredible judgements about an individual who clearly spends the time to learn how to be a responsible gun owner. What you're equating is someone who says they know karate because they watch a lot of kung fu movies. This is a guy who regularly trains at a dojo. Not everyone who owns a gun has the proper discipline to learn how to use their weapon. I call those people statistics, and they set a bad examp…

> You're making incredible judgements

I'm not passing judgement at all. I'm saying that having a device that is designed to suddenly and explosively discharge a projectile is inherently unsafe. To back up my claim I posted numerous videos, many of highly trained people, who have experienced accidental/negligent discharge.

Accidents happen. Even to the most highly trained and careful. The issue with gun accidents is that they have an incredibly high risk of being fatal. Enjoy guns all you like. Just stop pretending that you are safer around them or that you are immune to mistakes. No human is.

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