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The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

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Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#41

Post by killwhitey »

seszett wrote: post #40
DanBC wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> stopped in a place other drivers might not expect You should expect drivers to stop at intersections. You should normally leave enough space between you and the car in front to avoid rear-end collision, even if that car stops suddenly. And there's already a signal the car in front has slowed - their brake lights come on. (Maybe that's not a US thing though?)

Well, for one people do not expect drivers to stop at a green light, like was the case here. You might wish everybody was well aware of their environment, but the fact is, a green light is a strong signal that makes people assume the other drivers are moving or are going to. The second point is completely off-topic, as the car in question had plenty of space between them and the Google car's rear-end. It just failed…

>Well, for one people do not expect drivers to stop at a green light, like was the case here. You might wish everybody was well aware of their environment, but the fact is, a green light is a strong signal that makes people assume the other drivers are moving or are going to.

Watch the video. The self-driving car braked because the two cars in front of it did.

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#42

Post by Ratelman »

Khao wrote: post #31
ousta wrote: post #30

a quick question. heres the situation I am in a self driving car driving full speed on the highway, a little girl crosses the highway (highly unprobable but still possible) what will my car do? maintain high speed and kill her? or try to avoid her knowing that any attemps to avoid collision at this speed would likely injure me if not kill me? then how the car would react if it is a deer? then how the car will be 100%…

I trust a highly trained algorithm to make better and faster decision than a human driver. The algorithm is even aware of all the cars around it and their speed and can decide to take evasive action with a way better chance of success than I ever could.

If the other cars on the road are self driving cars as well they could all communicate and take into account the one car moving to avoid the object in the road, thereby also reducing the chance of damage to the vehicle swerving to avoid the object

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#43

Post by harmegido »

ousta wrote: post #30

a quick question. heres the situation I am in a self driving car driving full speed on the highway, a little girl crosses the highway (highly unprobable but still possible) what will my car do? maintain high speed and kill her? or try to avoid her knowing that any attemps to avoid collision at this speed would likely injure me if not kill me? then how the car would react if it is a deer? then how the car will be 100%…

I'm fine with this. I'll gladly take a trade where my probability of dying, via the general improvements gained from self-driving cars, decreases in most cases, but increases in other very specific, low probability cases. On average, I die less frequently.

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#44

Post by toomuchtodo »

jpatokal wrote: post #27
higherpurpose wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Uber sees self-driving cars much more as an opportunity than a threat - unless they are afraid they won't be able to buy self-driving cars from anyone but Google, and Google won't sell to them. But I'm sure there will be quite a few suppliers by the time they need the cars [1]. [1] - https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/uber-ceo-tesla-sell-half-milli...

I'm pretty sure Google would love to sell Uber some cars: http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/22/google-ventures-puts-258m-i...

Google Ventures and Google are separate arms of the same company. Ventures invested, but Google proper is working on their own service to compete against Uber.

Note how easy it'll be for Google to flip the "Uber" provider in Google Maps to their own service.

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#45

Post by agumonkey »

inthewoods wrote: post #20

These cars could be so freeing for so many segments of society. I agree with everyone that reducing the commuting annoyance would be awesome - imagine not having to worry about parking your car in the city anymore. You drive in on a highway at 90mph, get dropped off and then the car goes home or onto another task or gets shared out. Amazing. I'm even more excited about getting the elderly out of their homes safely, a…

It's akin to single user vs time sharing OS back in the 60s. I wonder how more efficient would society be with fluid allocation of transport.

Many of us like the idea, I also talk about it to some people, surprisingly they have no knowledge of the SDV projects (Google or other), even driving instructors. So far it adds to the trust and legal issues, public awareness seem quite slow for such a thing.

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#46

Post by andegre »

scotty79 wrote: post #24
sambeau wrote: post #12

I wonder how many of these driver errors are due to the assumption that the self-driven car will behave just like a human driven one? It wouldn't take much — an unnecessary hesitation, a slow pull away or (on the other end of the spectrum) super-human reactions to cause me to rear-end someone. Most of my near-collision experiences have been at a junction where I've judged a situation to be safe to pull into the road…

Definitely they could address it somehow. They could have additional stronger red light turning on when car is about to be rear ended. And some sort of rear airbag to softly catch the car behind.

Oooh, I like the rear airbag idea!

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#47

Post by seszett »

killwhitey wrote: post #41
seszett wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, for one people do not expect drivers to stop at a green light, like was the case here. You might wish everybody was well aware of their environment, but the fact is, a green light is a strong signal that makes people assume the other drivers are moving or are going to. The second point is completely off-topic, as the car in question had plenty of space between them and the Google car's rear-end. It just failed…

>Well, for one people do not expect drivers to stop at a green light, like was the case here. You might wish everybody was well aware of their environment, but the fact is, a green light is a strong signal that makes people assume the other drivers are moving or are going to. Watch the video. The self-driving car braked because the two cars in front of it did.

Hmm... of course it did. It's not a human. The green light vs. stopped traffic can't mislead it the same way a human can be misled through inattention.

The car behind the self-driving car didn't stop though, which lead to the incident. Presumably because it didn't pay attention to the fact that the cars in front were not moving despite the green light.

I'm not sure I understand where this thread is leading.

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#48

Post by DanBC »

seszett wrote: post #40
DanBC wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> stopped in a place other drivers might not expect You should expect drivers to stop at intersections. You should normally leave enough space between you and the car in front to avoid rear-end collision, even if that car stops suddenly. And there's already a signal the car in front has slowed - their brake lights come on. (Maybe that's not a US thing though?)

Well, for one people do not expect drivers to stop at a green light, like was the case here. You might wish everybody was well aware of their environment, but the fact is, a green light is a strong signal that makes people assume the other drivers are moving or are going to. The second point is completely off-topic, as the car in question had plenty of space between them and the Google car's rear-end. It just failed…

Perhaps this is a cultural thing? Over here green means proceed with caution.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachm...

> GREEN means you may go on if the way is clear. Take special care if you intend to turn left or right and give way to pedestrians who are crossing"

You seem to be saying that people are shitty drivers and that we need to either just put up with it, or fit our cars to stop some careless inattentive idiot from driving into us.

Fuck that.

Bad drivers should learn to drive.

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#49

Post by ghaff »

DanBC wrote: post #14
sambeau wrote: post #12

I wonder how many of these driver errors are due to the assumption that the self-driven car will behave just like a human driven one? It wouldn't take much — an unnecessary hesitation, a slow pull away or (on the other end of the spectrum) super-human reactions to cause me to rear-end someone. Most of my near-collision experiences have been at a junction where I've judged a situation to be safe to pull into the road…

> It wouldn't take much — an unnecessary hesitation, a slow pull away or (on the other end of the spectrum) super-human reactions to cause me to rear-end someone. If you rear end someone it is almost always[1] your fault, and in the examples you give it's definitely your fault. I'm a little bit surprised that you describe this as the fault of the Google cars. [1] ALMOST

As I understand it, from the perspective of an insurance company, rear-ending is basically always your fault no matter what the extenuating circumstances are. I couldn't stop on glare ice a number of years back (brakes basically did zero) and eventually kissed the bumper of a car I was following a good 100 ft. behind that had skidded and eventually came to a stop in the middle of the road. No damage but I mentioned this to a friend who worked at an insurance company and he said I'd have been considered at fault if a claim had been necessary.

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#50

Post by agumonkey »

seszett wrote: post #40
DanBC wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> stopped in a place other drivers might not expect You should expect drivers to stop at intersections. You should normally leave enough space between you and the car in front to avoid rear-end collision, even if that car stops suddenly. And there's already a signal the car in front has slowed - their brake lights come on. (Maybe that's not a US thing though?)

Well, for one people do not expect drivers to stop at a green light, like was the case here. You might wish everybody was well aware of their environment, but the fact is, a green light is a strong signal that makes people assume the other drivers are moving or are going to. The second point is completely off-topic, as the car in question had plenty of space between them and the Google car's rear-end. It just failed…

Green light are dubious, you don't know how long until they shift, and thus you 'really should' decelerate a bit (driving school talk). With clearer signs, you could at least not fear having to stop in emergency. But even then, that won't stop someone to cross his red light ...

Roads signs are like compiler warnings, it's all cute and nice, but it's just characters on the screen anyone can physically ignore. Let's have roads with nasty speed bumps before all intersections, which are all annoying, impossible to cross fast, roundabouts. #haskell

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