Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 86 posts

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#31

Post by Khao »

ousta wrote: post #30

a quick question. heres the situation I am in a self driving car driving full speed on the highway, a little girl crosses the highway (highly unprobable but still possible) what will my car do? maintain high speed and kill her? or try to avoid her knowing that any attemps to avoid collision at this speed would likely injure me if not kill me? then how the car would react if it is a deer? then how the car will be 100%…

I trust a highly trained algorithm to make better and faster decision than a human driver. The algorithm is even aware of all the cars around it and their speed and can decide to take evasive action with a way better chance of success than I ever could.

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#32

Post by DanBC »

seszett wrote: post #29
300bps wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any attempt made to un-distract the driver? Flashing brake lights? Horn? This sounds too similar to victim blaming. In my opinion any action taken by someone who is about to be hit from behind in a low speed crash is likely to make the problem worse. I don't think that is the time to have a quick jerky motion into the shoulder of the road. Even honking the horn could distract or panic another driver that the…

You're being way too dismissive here. When stopped in a place other drivers might not expect, just flashing the brake lights does wonders. Probably because human eyes and brains notice change much more readily than a solid light.

> stopped in a place other drivers might not expect

You should expect drivers to stop at intersections. You should normally leave enough space between you and the car in front to avoid rear-end collision, even if that car stops suddenly. And there's already a signal the car in front has slowed - their brake lights come on. (Maybe that's not a US thing though?)

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#33

Post by ghaff »

DanBC wrote: post #22
sdoering wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please provide legislation for that? I would not believe, that you would commit fraud when not reporting an accident and paying for repair yourself. At least not in Germany, where I am from.

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/ive-been-in-a... It's part of almost every insurer's terms and conditions. They use your driving history to set your premiums. Thus they want to know every accident you've been in because that affects how much they charge you - it affects how risky you are. If you know you've had an accident, and they ask you to report all accidents, and you do not report an accident wit…

I have absolutely never heard of such a thing in the US and I've been driving for a long time. I mean, people get little dings and whatnot in parking lots or wherever all the time--which they may or may not do something about at some point. I've never heard of sending a letter to the insurance company in the absence of a claim. I'm not saying there isn't some fine print in some contracts but it's just not something I've ever heard of someone doing.

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#34

Post by ousta »

Khao wrote: post #31
ousta wrote: post #30

a quick question. heres the situation I am in a self driving car driving full speed on the highway, a little girl crosses the highway (highly unprobable but still possible) what will my car do? maintain high speed and kill her? or try to avoid her knowing that any attemps to avoid collision at this speed would likely injure me if not kill me? then how the car would react if it is a deer? then how the car will be 100%…

I trust a highly trained algorithm to make better and faster decision than a human driver. The algorithm is even aware of all the cars around it and their speed and can decide to take evasive action with a way better chance of success than I ever could.

yes but what if your goal is to get out of this and the goal of the algorithm is to save the deer or the little girl?

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#35

Post by Khao »

ousta wrote: post #34
Khao wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I trust a highly trained algorithm to make better and faster decision than a human driver. The algorithm is even aware of all the cars around it and their speed and can decide to take evasive action with a way better chance of success than I ever could.

yes but what if your goal is to get out of this and the goal of the algorithm is to save the deer or the little girl?

Then I trust the safety engineers of that car to have designed a car that will get me out of an accident alive.

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#36

Post by martincmartin »

rwmj wrote: post #3

The experiment's been going on for 6 years, so when can I have one? I absolutely hate driving - a complete waste of 30+ minutes of my day, every day, and stressful too dealing with all the idiots on the road.

Actually, it's been going on for 20 years.

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tjochem/nhaa/Journal.html

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tjochem/nhaa/navlab5_details.html

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#37

Post by inthewoods »

higherpurpose wrote: post #23
inthewoods wrote: post #20

These cars could be so freeing for so many segments of society. I agree with everyone that reducing the commuting annoyance would be awesome - imagine not having to worry about parking your car in the city anymore. You drive in on a highway at 90mph, get dropped off and then the car goes home or onto another task or gets shared out. Amazing. I'm even more excited about getting the elderly out of their homes safely, a…

I think Uber sees self-driving cars much more as an opportunity than a threat - unless they are afraid they won't be able to buy self-driving cars from anyone but Google, and Google won't sell to them. But I'm sure there will be quite a few suppliers by the time they need the cars [1]. [1] - https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/uber-ceo-tesla-sell-half-milli...

Short term I agree with you, but longer term I'm not sure. Short term, they lower costs massively.

Longer term, a majority of people have self-driving cars. If I live in the suburbs, I either keep it all to myself, or loan it out when I'm not using it. If I live in the city, then I likely don't own a car - but instead call on a car as I need to. These probably come from both individual lending their car, and from groups/companies that are setup as a service.

Either way, these cars are likely to be network agnostic - meaning they'll lend themselves out to Uber, Lyft - whoever. So while costs will go down, it could lead to a big margin compression. Meanwhile, the arms seller (Google, whoever) makes money on each car being sold.

Makes sense, therefore, for Uber to continue to focus on capturing the market - their installed consumer base (and their brand) is their strongest asset going forward.

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#38

Post by brixon »

Khao wrote: post #31
ousta wrote: post #30

a quick question. heres the situation I am in a self driving car driving full speed on the highway, a little girl crosses the highway (highly unprobable but still possible) what will my car do? maintain high speed and kill her? or try to avoid her knowing that any attemps to avoid collision at this speed would likely injure me if not kill me? then how the car would react if it is a deer? then how the car will be 100%…

I trust a highly trained algorithm to make better and faster decision than a human driver. The algorithm is even aware of all the cars around it and their speed and can decide to take evasive action with a way better chance of success than I ever could.

It should be a three tier decision. First, preserve the life in the vehicle. Second, preserve life outside of the vehicle. Third, minimize property damage.

Deer vs little girl does not really matter, that is just an emotional ploy.

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#39

Post by Khao »

brixon wrote: post #38
Khao wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I trust a highly trained algorithm to make better and faster decision than a human driver. The algorithm is even aware of all the cars around it and their speed and can decide to take evasive action with a way better chance of success than I ever could.

It should be a three tier decision. First, preserve the life in the vehicle. Second, preserve life outside of the vehicle. Third, minimize property damage. Deer vs little girl does not really matter, that is just an emotional ploy.

I'd hope the algorithm was designed to crash the car instead of running over a pedestrian. A pedestrian has little chance to survive getting run over compared to a passenger in a car with a seatbelt, airbags, crumple zones, etc.. to protect him.

Re: The View from the Front Seat of the Google Self-Driving Car, Chapter 2

#40

Post by seszett »

DanBC wrote: post #32
seszett wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being way too dismissive here. When stopped in a place other drivers might not expect, just flashing the brake lights does wonders. Probably because human eyes and brains notice change much more readily than a solid light.

> stopped in a place other drivers might not expect You should expect drivers to stop at intersections. You should normally leave enough space between you and the car in front to avoid rear-end collision, even if that car stops suddenly. And there's already a signal the car in front has slowed - their brake lights come on. (Maybe that's not a US thing though?)

Well, for one people do not expect drivers to stop at a green light, like was the case here. You might wish everybody was well aware of their environment, but the fact is, a green light is a strong signal that makes people assume the other drivers are moving or are going to.

The second point is completely off-topic, as the car in question had plenty of space between them and the Google car's rear-end. It just failed to notice it was not moving.

The last point is already addressed in my previous comment: a solid brake light is much less noticeable than a brake light coming on. In some countries in Europe it's relatively common to have blinking brake lights, but I don't think that's the case in the US.

 

These points are just basic human behaviour, and they aren't going away, no matter how contemptuous you are and how much you look down on other people.

Post reply on HN