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Firefox makes click-to-activate Flash the default

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Re: Firefox makes click-to-activate Flash the default

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What made Flash so fast ? was it direct unsafe access to the metal or was there some black magic in their code ?

actionscript (the flash programming language) is pretty much the same as javascript, the main reason why flash is often a lot faster than html+js things in a browser is it is not constrained to a slow, broken DOM for building uis.

One notable difference is that ActionScript 3 is a strongly typed language, which can help with performance.

Re: Firefox makes click-to-activate Flash the default

#372
post #198

Mark from Mozilla here. To be clear, by "blocked" Flash we really mean enforced click-to-activate. User choice is always a #1 priority at Mozilla. We regularly block vulnerable plugins. What made this block different was that we did it before Adobe made an update available. Now that Adobe has released an update, it is no longer true that every version of Flash Player is blocked in Firefox. However, we're glad to see…

Hi Mark, Technology should be replaced by better technology. To give you some background: I've written games for all kinds of platforms: PocketPC, Windows Mobile, (Desktop) Windows, Linux, OS X, Flash (AS3), HipTop, J2ME devices and some smaller proprietary devices. Some of those platforms offer write once, run everywhere. On other platforms every device has it's own quirks and you have to test on every device and im…

Hi, while I got your point and mostly I agree with you, I just have a question.

Now when WebGL is widely adopted why you can create your games using that technology? Or even compile your C/C++ games with asm.js. I saw very nice demos in the past.

For simple 2D games (like most of the Flash games), I saw very nice Flash-friendly libraries like Phaser[0] (based on Pixi.js).

[0] - https://phaser.io/examples

Re: Firefox makes click-to-activate Flash the default

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flash isn't part of the Web. It's not vendor neutral. If Adobe decides to deprioritise a platform that mean the users of that platform with experience less support in terms of bug fixes, performance and security. If Adobe decides not to support a platform period that means users of that platform are left without a means to access Flash content. If you are a user this is unacceptable. More importantly these things hav…

I fully agree with you. But like I said, if technology is replaced, it should be replaced by better technology. For websites, HTML5 offers enough to be considered a proper alternative. Yes, I probably dislike Flash websites as much as you do. But for games, HTML5 just doesn't cut it compared to Flash (or yes, even Java applets as someone else mentioned ;)). And the sad truth is that by design, each browser vendor wil…

I think the issue is with the 'better technology' bit. Flash simply isn't a better technology than HTML5. They are, as they say, a land of contrasts, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. But where HTML5 is moving forward, steadily improving, Flash is actually getting much worse with time, supporting an ever-smaller proportion of the net, and doing so with less stability and security.

Re: Firefox makes click-to-activate Flash the default

#374
post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome moved to context click + menu because left click is clickjackable, so doesn't help very much with the security issues.

I've seen this argument, but don't believe that removing the option for click-to-play improves security. I'd could believe this theory if the default was simulataneously changed to have Flash default to off, but as it is, the result is that more users will choose to keep the default where Flash always on. Surely automatic activation is even less secure than a potentially hijackable click-to-play?

I don't believe the small mechanical difference in click activation actually makes a huge difference to uptake numbers, since the big leap is making the choice to have plugins not run by default, with the activation path making no noticeable difference since by then you've already filtered out most people, who just don't care about plugin activation. This feature is driven by the Chrome security/privacy teams, who would have reverted it by now if they saw a regression in usage.

Re: Firefox makes click-to-activate Flash the default

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Mark, Technology should be replaced by better technology. To give you some background: I've written games for all kinds of platforms: PocketPC, Windows Mobile, (Desktop) Windows, Linux, OS X, Flash (AS3), HipTop, J2ME devices and some smaller proprietary devices. Some of those platforms offer write once, run everywhere. On other platforms every device has it's own quirks and you have to test on every device and im…

Flash isn't part of the Web. It's not vendor neutral. If Adobe decides to deprioritise a platform that mean the users of that platform with experience less support in terms of bug fixes, performance and security. If Adobe decides not to support a platform period that means users of that platform are left without a means to access Flash content. If you are a user this is unacceptable. More importantly these things hav…

> If Adobe decides to deprioritise a platform that mean the users of that platform with experience less support in terms of bug fixes, performance and security.

Case in point, OSX. Wasn't until Flash v11 that OSX had hardware-assisted playback.

Re: Firefox makes click-to-activate Flash the default

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mobile doesn't need browser plugins, because it has apps. AS3 compiles to Android and iOS, just as it should. So I agree with Adobe that mobile doesn't need to support Flash. BTW, the same AS3 codebase for Flash runs as mobile apps. Do the HTML5 games support all versions of all browsers on the most popular mobile devices? Not on mine at least :(. One codebase, runs everywhere, Flash in the browser, apps on mobile de…

koonsolo is right on with all his points. Flash is better then HTML5 all around. Though personally I can understand why Adobe dropped support for linux, the market is just too small. Even though this community probably has a higher percentage of linux user then just about anywhere.

Yeah and this community is made up by mostly developers. To turn your back on developers is shooting yourself in your own foot. However, that is not what adobe are doing. They have signalled their intention to sunset flash themselves for a long time.

Re: Firefox makes click-to-activate Flash the default

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Mark, Technology should be replaced by better technology. To give you some background: I've written games for all kinds of platforms: PocketPC, Windows Mobile, (Desktop) Windows, Linux, OS X, Flash (AS3), HipTop, J2ME devices and some smaller proprietary devices. Some of those platforms offer write once, run everywhere. On other platforms every device has it's own quirks and you have to test on every device and im…

I think I'd rather play your game and have it break on the end boss of level 5 than risk having severe security vulnerabilities in my browser.

[deleted]

Re: Firefox makes click-to-activate Flash the default

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully agree with you. But like I said, if technology is replaced, it should be replaced by better technology. For websites, HTML5 offers enough to be considered a proper alternative. Yes, I probably dislike Flash websites as much as you do. But for games, HTML5 just doesn't cut it compared to Flash (or yes, even Java applets as someone else mentioned ;)). And the sad truth is that by design, each browser vendor wil…

The Web is better, it's vendor neutral and not depended on whims of Adobe. Sure it may not be convenient for developers but as a user it's very convenient.

[deleted]

Re: Firefox makes click-to-activate Flash the default

#379
post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Mark, Technology should be replaced by better technology. To give you some background: I've written games for all kinds of platforms: PocketPC, Windows Mobile, (Desktop) Windows, Linux, OS X, Flash (AS3), HipTop, J2ME devices and some smaller proprietary devices. Some of those platforms offer write once, run everywhere. On other platforms every device has it's own quirks and you have to test on every device and im…

Hi, while I got your point and mostly I agree with you, I just have a question. Now when WebGL is widely adopted why you can create your games using that technology? Or even compile your C/C++ games with asm.js. I saw very nice demos in the past. For simple 2D games (like most of the Flash games), I saw very nice Flash-friendly libraries like Phaser[0] (based on Pixi.js). [0] - https://phaser.io/examples

I went to that phaser.io url, and when clicking on the examples, I see a background with nothing on it. I don't know if it has to show something animated or not. I pushed the 'Run code' rocket button, but still nothing shows. How do I make it start?

This is in Firefix 39.0, Windows.

Let's try IE, I'm curious. I need to click 'Show all content' at the bottom, and after that I see the animations. I tried the 'virtual joystick dpad' example and it works. But the cutouts of the joypads seem off. You can see their rectangular cutout, got the impression transparency isn't working properly, but also possible it was designed that way. But I don't think so because the screenshot of that example doesn't have it, so I guess it is a platform issue.

One more go, my iPhone: It doesn't scale properly, way too big for my screen. Can't zoom out or scroll. But the animations seem to run in the corner of the screen that I can see. Same transparency issue as on IE.

And let's be honest here, those examples are pretty basic and simple.

Re: Firefox makes click-to-activate Flash the default

#380
post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, while I got your point and mostly I agree with you, I just have a question. Now when WebGL is widely adopted why you can create your games using that technology? Or even compile your C/C++ games with asm.js. I saw very nice demos in the past. For simple 2D games (like most of the Flash games), I saw very nice Flash-friendly libraries like Phaser[0] (based on Pixi.js). [0] - https://phaser.io/examples

I went to that phaser.io url, and when clicking on the examples, I see a background with nothing on it. I don't know if it has to show something animated or not. I pushed the 'Run code' rocket button, but still nothing shows. How do I make it start? This is in Firefix 39.0, Windows. Let's try IE, I'm curious. I need to click 'Show all content' at the bottom, and after that I see the animations. I tried the 'virtual j…

You said Flash doesn't need to support mobile because they offer apps. And now you bring mobile back into equation when evaluating WebGL?
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