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Google’s Eddystone – a flexible, open-source iBeacon alternative

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Re: Google’s Eddystone – a flexible, open-source iBeacon alternative

#31
post #29
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can definitely get the hardware for Feel free to hit me with beacon questions, I've got a bunch of varieties sitting on my desk right now.

what are the caveats of Gimbal?

Shorter range, proprietary setup/configuration process, cycle IDs (crashing some android bluetooth stacks). They really want you to pay for the backend - wouldn't be surprised if they're sold at cost.

The batteries don't last as long as advertised either, but that's pretty much been true for all of the devices I've tested.

Re: Google’s Eddystone – a flexible, open-source iBeacon alternative

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So are countless other companies (Mozilla, Segment, Facebook, Netflix) and individual developers open sourcing their code the right way unlike Google which seems to be using that as either to gather community consensus or to attract businesses (Hey! You're not tied to us, just roll your own Google Play Store equivalent, and replicate Google Play Services, and you're done, its all too easy, and if you don't trust us,…

What part of Google's AOSP do you disagree with? Is it that they don't perform every single commit in public or is it that their services aren't open sourced? As for your reference to the Google Play Store - this makes no sense at all. It's a service hosted and maintained on Google servers. Did you really expect Google to give this service away to any competitor that decides to fork Android? >But you know what... if…

There's no real collaboration with external parties as far as I am aware ala the Node Foundation, the Linux Foundation etc;

And even if a device passes CTS, Google would not automagically hand you the keys to the Google Play Services kingdom.

As for Play Store / Play Services is concerned, they've been moving a lot of code to closed-sourced APKs. For instance, the default browser was open source, now the default browser that's Chrome isn't. The default keyboard was, now it isn't. The Camera app was, now it isn't. They started out being more open than where they are now. And that's my beef with AOSP.

I don't have the count of number of bugs non-Google employees fix. The percentages may be negligible, but the impact is high-- They do seem to be looking at mods elsewhere (swipe to dismiss notification? battery percentage in the status bar? open apps from lockscreen? CyanogenMod had them first), and they did just brought in Knox from Samsung recently.

Also, I am not asking for free Play Store support, no sir; I am asking for an open and standardized integration of multiple appstores and related services. But I guess that's not possible (see first line), and elaborate hacks such as MicroG need to be put in place https://github.com/microg (a loosing battle, IMO).

Re: Google’s Eddystone – a flexible, open-source iBeacon alternative

#34

> The name "Eddystone" might sound a little weird, but Google says it's named after the Eddystone Lighthouse in the UK Damnit Google! Naming things after light-houses is our "thing"![1][2][3][4] :-) All joking aside this sounds like a pretty cool project. And anything that helps keep as much IoT infrastructure open-source as possible, is a Good Thing in our book. I'm actually really hoping this catches on and displac…

Funny the things you stumble across when reading through user comments. Love what you're doing.

In your 'travels', have you come across the need to integrate your services with the TechnologyOne line of products?

Information insight is a problem the company I work for struggles with immensely.

Re: Google’s Eddystone – a flexible, open-source iBeacon alternative

#35

The pity is that BLE on Android has sucked, horribly badly, consistently. Google needs to have their hardware have a minimum level of support for basic stuff, and then we can talk. In contrast, Apple's BLE implementation is robust and works well for since the iPhone 4S, and reliably on all the newer platforms

Could you please elaborate on where the suckiness lies? Was it particular devices, or particular phone manufacturers? Or was it something wrong with the Android BLE APIs?

Re: Google’s Eddystone – a flexible, open-source iBeacon alternative

#36

> The name "Eddystone" might sound a little weird, but Google says it's named after the Eddystone Lighthouse in the UK Damnit Google! Naming things after light-houses is our "thing"![1][2][3][4] :-) All joking aside this sounds like a pretty cool project. And anything that helps keep as much IoT infrastructure open-source as possible, is a Good Thing in our book. I'm actually really hoping this catches on and displac…

Funny the things you stumble across when reading through user comments. Love what you're doing. In your 'travels', have you come across the need to integrate your services with the TechnologyOne line of products? Information insight is a problem the company I work for struggles with immensely.

I'm not familiar with TechnologyOne's products, but I'll look them up. If you'd like to talk about it offline, feel free to drop me an email. prhodes@fogbeam.com

Re: Google’s Eddystone – a flexible, open-source iBeacon alternative

#37
So is the major advantage of Eddystone that Google will implement it and won't sue you for using it in ways they don't like?

Eddystone isn't alone; there's AltBeacon, which is also an 'open' alternative: http://altbeacon.org/ Though it looks like they might be 'merging' with Eddystone.

AltBeacon was born out of Apple giving Radius Networks a cease & desist about a year ago for reverse-engineering the iBeacon protocol and distributing an open-source Android toolkit (with paid enhancements) for iBeacons: http://beekn.net/2014/07/ibeacon-for-android/

The Android iBeacon code used to be on Github but is no longer there. IMO the core "infringement" (if there really is any) is about 10-20 lines of Java that unpacks an iBeacon (major, minor, uuid) from a byte buffer and another bit of Java that aims to map RSSI to Apple's simple model for estimating iBeacon distances. The library did wrap the functionality in a nice background-threaded interface, and their API is distinct from Apple's. On the iPhone, there's a BLE daemon that powers iBeacon and is rather crashy (at least as of iOS8). The Radius Networks solution was clearly distinct. The story would be a textbook example of Apple's legal department hurting open innovation except for the detail that Radius Networks was offering a paid developer product atop the open source offering. (But I doubt they were making much money from it).

There are a lot of problems with iBeacon technology:

* A lot of people have bluetooth off. The surveys out there have a lot of variance, and you typically have a 50/50 chance that a user with a very modern smartphone will have BLE enabled.

* Droid battery usage isn't too bad, but Apple's solution has a distinct advantage because the BLE daemon powering the feature can interop more closely with iOS and eat less CPU. It's really hard to get a consistent experience on both platforms.

* To do anything productive with the iBeacon (major, minor, UUID), you probably want to ping a webservice, which will be hard unless you have free wifi or you've made fancy deals with carriers (or Apple). And if there's wifi, you might as well just try to use that as a beacon (ala PayPal's product).

* You probably /dont/ want to have iBeacons trigger any sort of immediate advert or notification unless the user has previously opted in to the service. A lot of users are starting to not grant notification and other privs by default. Most users also do NOT like background location stuff. There are definitely user segments that differ, but you'll likely need to do a great deal of customer research to validate using iBeacon. If your app is payments, there's already NFC. If your app is marketing, you might get higher engagement with Augmented Reality or something tied to some other location service (ala Amex & 4sq).

Re: Google’s Eddystone – a flexible, open-source iBeacon alternative

#38

The problem with Google is that you don't know if any product/service they launch will still be supported in a few years' time, or if the product/engineering team will lose interest and move on to build the next shiny thing.

This meme is getting tired. Plenty of other companies EOL products.

It's not a meme, it's a cliché. And it's a cliché because it's true.

Edit: Coincidentally: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9888387

Re: Google’s Eddystone – a flexible, open-source iBeacon alternative

#39
post #21

> Google gets the best of both worlds here. As an open source project, Eddystone gets lots of hardware support from vendors, but if developers want to give users the best experience and have an easier time themselves, they have to submit to the walled garden. Eddystone doesn't need to be tied to Google though, and if developers want to use their own cloud solution or client API This is a killer. This isn't really ope…

But then people complain that Samsung, HTC, etc changes Android so much that they clamor for Google to control the OS more. Damn if you do, damn if you don't.

This would be much less of a problem if it were as easy to reinstall the OS on your phone as it is on a PC.

Re: Google’s Eddystone – a flexible, open-source iBeacon alternative

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I work on AOSP, and I think it is ridiculous that Google owns so much of the eco-system [1] and continues to get praised for being "open" as well; very much like how this article seems to be praising them now. They own so much of the ecosystem because they produce 99% of the code. It continues to amaze me how ungrateful people are to Google and their AOSP project considering they're the ones spending millions on R&D…

So are countless other companies (Mozilla, Segment, Facebook, Netflix) and individual developers open sourcing their code the right way unlike Google which seems to be using that as either to gather community consensus or to attract businesses (Hey! You're not tied to us, just roll your own Google Play Store equivalent, and replicate Google Play Services, and you're done, its all too easy, and if you don't trust us,…

> if you do sign the OHA, then you must install our closed source apps

This is not true

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