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Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

nytimes.com

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Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#251

Post by drawkbox »

mavdi wrote: post #33

Sceptical Iranian here. There are groups that profit from an ongoing tension and conflict on both sides. This time around it seems they have lost the hand, but we would be a fool to think that this agreement settles things for good. This has always been and will always be a fluid situation. I think the work has just begun now, let's hope the sane people inc charge on both sides will keep things positive. Otherwise it…

If Iran can benefit economically from the removed sanctions then the quality of life will go up and hopefully override the hawkish sides that desire warring.

Iran is better off more like Japan/S. Korea/Israel in terms of commerce with us rather than shut down and sanctioned. This is also a boon for oil prices for consumers. The oil production also balances against Saudi/Russia power in the region.

Iranians are very great, smart, innovative people and they have lots to share and innovate in. It is saddening that sanctions have happened for so long when speaking about the good people there being overridden by extremes.

I just hope that the economic benefits overpower the hawks on either side via market solutions and shared quality of life increases.

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#252

Post by tome »

user_0001 wrote: post #105

>(besides Israel, obviously) Out of interest, why obviously? The unfaltering support given to Israel seems strange (to most outside of the US who I have spoken to). Israel has it's religious fundamentalists (just like the rest of the region). Is militarily aggressive, disregards civilian life, commits war crimes, disregards international law and opinion (with impunity due to the US and their veto - and forcing other…

What an utter bunch of nonsense. Israel's military takes the most care to protect civilian lives of any military, probably any military ever in history. But if you want to castigate Israel for responding at all to rocket attacks on its civilians then please go ahead and do so.

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#253

Post by discardorama »

Aqueous wrote: post #199
discardorama wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Israel is our ally ... ... because a large number of conservative Americans believe that Jesus is not going to come unless Israel is ruled by a Jewish king (or something like that; see here: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/14/washington/14israel.html?p... ) ... because a large number of donors to the Republican (and Democratic) parties are wealthy Jewish folk. And we know that in the US, money talks when it comes to…

And yet the President of the United States (and a member of the Democratic Party) just negotiated a deal entirely without the help of the Israel, in fact with a lot of hand-wringing and public protest from Israel and its leadership, a deal which Israel is very publicly angry about despite it being arguably in their self-interest to defuse tension within the Middle East. Doesn't seem so much like we're in the pocket o…

"In the pocket of" is a broad statement.

Most of the _politicians_ in this country give undue importance to Israel. cf, Hillary's recent statement that she'll be better for Israel. They seem to fall over themselves to out-hawk the hawkish Israelis.

As far as the Iran deal is concerned: many top Israelis are actually in favor of this deal. See:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/06/efraim-halevy-netan...

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/israel-middle-east/i...

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#254

Post by discardorama »

judah wrote: post #229
Aqueous wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet the President of the United States (and a member of the Democratic Party) just negotiated a deal entirely without the help of the Israel, in fact with a lot of hand-wringing and public protest from Israel and its leadership, a deal which Israel is very publicly angry about despite it being arguably in their self-interest to defuse tension within the Middle East. Doesn't seem so much like we're in the pocket o…

>> "despite it being arguably in [Israel's] best self-interest to defuse tension within the Middle East." Israel and its backers don't like the Iran deal because it enables the Islamic Republic to gain nuclear weapons, which its powerful religious leaders hope to use on Israel. And history has taught Jews to take threats to our existence seriously.

Here we go again. I'm sure you'll point to Ahmedinajad's "wipe it off the map" speech again?

Mossad's former chief himself supports the deal. I would trust him over a politician any day: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4644691,00.html

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#255

Post by tome »

toyg wrote: post #36
briandear wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read the Iran deal? The Iranians were happy about it, this it likely wasn't a good deal for the rest of us. The Iranians can't be trusted. If Obama cares about Iran, he would have supported their Green Revolution; instead those protestors were executed, tortured or imprisioned. Yet, strangely, Obama supported the Egyptian coup. Honestly, Obama doesn't know what he's doing when it comes to foreign policy. He…

> The Iranians can't be trusted. National stereotypes, pillars of pragmatic diplomacy ever since 2000 BC and the clear mark of logical thinkers the world over. > If Obama cares about Iran, he would have supported their Green Revolution How do you know he didn't? Because he didn't send in bombers to "support demonstrations"? > Yet, strangely, Obama supported the Egyptian coup ... when the alternative would have been m…

> > If Obama cares about Iran, he would have supported their Green Revolution

> How do you know he didn't? Because he didn't send in bombers to "support demonstrations"?

Come on, it's quite clear that Obama was very low-key during the Green Revolution protests, much lower-key than he needed to be.

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#256

Post by jerf »

dimino wrote: post #179
girmad wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number is closer to 9. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_we...

Good call, I was completely wrong in what I thought the state of nuclear weapons proliferation was.

And it's generally understood that some other countries are only "non-nuclear" because the question hasn't come up yet. Does anyone doubt that Japan could have a nuke in three months or less if it really wanted to? Or Canada?

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#257

Post by tome »

hni wrote: post #76
bsaul wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's only justified because trying to get a nuclear weapon has an impact on everyone's peace. Especially for a country that's been at war with its neighbours for the last 50 years at least, in a chaotic region filled with international terrorists groups and active war zones right at the moment.

Please list all wars initiated by Iran during the last 50 years. As that will probably not take too long, maybe you can also tell us with which neighbours Iran has been at war during the last 50 years.

Iran has been at war with Israel for at least 30 years via its proxies Hezbollah and Hamas.

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#258

Post by maratd »

Udik wrote: post #244
maratd wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AltyhmrIFgo

Oooh, the guy walked with a kippah on his head through the muslim quarters of Paris for 10 hours, and what he got? A few mocking comments from the racaille, and a "Vive Palestine!". That's really a Kristallnacht situation here. Given what Israel is doing in Palestine, I'd have expected more. You might want to repeat the exercise in one of the black quarters of New York, with a white guy walking alone through them for…

> You might want to repeat the exercise in one of the black quarters of New York, with a white guy walking alone through them for 10 hours

Been there, done that. Nobody yelled anything at me or spat at me.

> That's really a Kristallnacht situation here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_%C3%8Ele-de-France_attack...

It must all be my imagination.

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#259

Post by pstuart »

tome wrote: post #245
0xFFC wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traditional Iranian ceremonies always was a great part of our society (at least as far as I can remember , and note that these ceremonies are not approved by Islam most of the time but people kept doing them after revolution).But nationalism became regular part in recent years.I don't think it is dominant part , as far as I see it is important part. I should mention in recent years Iran became so much wired country i…

> The city I live in with population of 2 Million.They only managed to bring ~50,000 That's 2.5%. By contrast the biggest protest in British history (against the 2003 invasion of Iraq) was around 1m people, just shy of 2% of the country. I'm afraid I can't see Al Quds days as indicative of anything other than rabid and endemic anti-Israel, anti-American and anti-Western sentiment.

But how many of those 50,000 were paid or "persuaded" to participate?

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#260

Post by tome »

threeseed wrote: post #57
seivan wrote: post #46

My God, why didn't Roosevelt and Churchill think of giving billions in relief to the Third Reich. That would have solved everything. Chamberlain was a forgotten hero! Giving Mullahs access to create nuclear weapons. Taking their word for it that they won't. Yeah, this will end well. Just yesterday their Iranian proxies in Baghdad were burning American and Israeli flags. Vowing to destroy The Great Satan(s), why do we…

There are plenty of countries in the world that have questionable human rights records. Many of whom the "West" has quite strong relationships with e.g. China, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Russia. Putting a blindfold on and pretending you can just contain or ignore certain countries has failed as a strategy and will continue to fail. So unless you want to do something about Iran militarily (not feasible) then you are lookin…

You're right. Israel has such a questionable human rights record that it has been condemned more by the UNHRC than all other countries combined[1]. That UNHRC currently contains such paragons as Saudi Arabia, China and Cuba.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Human_Rights_Co...

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