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Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

nytimes.com

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Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#121

Post by yoavm »

lentil_soup wrote: post #27
bsaul wrote: post #5

Am i the only one amazed at the fact that we actually had to wait for iranians to accept to stop going toward nuclear weapons ? I mean, why did EU and US insist so much on wanting a deal ? It seemed to be that one side has all the leverage in the negociation and the other has none. We could have simply waited for the iranian regime to get so weakened that they'd simply surrender and accept every measure. So I don't u…

So you punish an entire group of people by weakening their economy until their government does what an external entity wants them to do?. Seems quite a violent approach.

Every country has a right to forbid business relations with another country due to its government's policy. As an Israeli I think the boycott on Israel is a legitimate way to try influencing our policies even though the boycott hurts me as a citizen that oppose the occupation. You pay a price for having a dumb government.

Just to clarify: I'm all for the deal with Iran, hoping for a better future for the Iranians.

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#122

Post by vixen99 »

Expeditus419 wrote: post #10
bsaul wrote: post #5

Am i the only one amazed at the fact that we actually had to wait for iranians to accept to stop going toward nuclear weapons ? I mean, why did EU and US insist so much on wanting a deal ? It seemed to be that one side has all the leverage in the negociation and the other has none. We could have simply waited for the iranian regime to get so weakened that they'd simply surrender and accept every measure. So I don't u…

A prolonged weakened economy doesn't necessarily prevent a country from developing a nuclear weapons program. Take a look at North Korea.

And they are untouchable. Lesson for the rest. Whatever you do, by hook or by crook, get a nuclear weapon.

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#123

Post by afarrell »

user_0001 wrote: post #106
afarrell wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Partly because we once overthrew their democratically-elected prime minister out of fear he would align with the USSR. In our defense, China had just become communist and Britain was convincing us this would happen because their PM was saying he would nationalize the Anglo-Iranian oil company (now known as BP). Have a CrashCourse video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w4Ku6l7OEI

> out of fear he would align with the USSR. oh come on. That was not the fear (although perhaps "portrayed" as that, but it was never the fear by those who commanded the action. The fear was he wanted to use the profits of the resources of their country to benefit the people of the country. This would never do as the profits were being directed to Britain and the US. It is like China overthrowing the US government be…

> being directed to benefit Britain and the U.S.

I know they were directed to Britain: Anglo-Iranian was a significant chunk of the UK pension system. But what monetary benefit was going to the U.S.?

Most of my understanding here is coming from All the Shah's Men. If you've got additional sources, I'd love to see them.

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#124

Post by danialtz »

0xFFC wrote: post #119
bsaul wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out or curiosity, why does the (religious) iranian regime keeps calling USA "the great devil" then ? Ps :reading some answers, i know about the history of conflicts between usa and iran. I was just pointing the fact that calling Iran a "natural ally" is a bit of a stretch.

Iranian here , and I am commenting from Iran.Iranian people maybe most pro usa people in middle east. and about government, they just need keep people busy because of they systematic corruption. Thats all. 10 years before , Ali Khamneai said following : "anyone who says we should communicate with USA is or idiot or our enemy/traitor". and guess what ? today , FM Zarif have record in our history for maximum time negot…

It is too simplistic to link all the changes to money or radicals. Every country has all the sides of a normal distribution. You have extremists, and you have general majority, and then many smaller interest groups, leftists etc. In USA even look what the difference between two elections was, clinton and bush and then Obama, and what the world experienced.

What I believe happened is that the remains of the green movement did not die, but thanks to the awareness of folk in Iran, direction of politicians inside, and policy changes of USA and other EU outside (pull out rather than invade), the movement was left to go into direction of democracy rather than anarchy. Despite being hurt in the election I voted for Ruhani, envisioning a slow but necessary passage into democracy, while many people are used to the black and white terms of revolution. The people in power felt this, and saw the movements around them in arabic revolutions, and decided to go on with it rather than against it, with the support of majority.

Today we are not done, but is the day we start seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, that there is hope.

Edit:typo + clarification

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#125

Post by SG- »

vasilipupkin wrote: post #93
jajool wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

majority of young people are happy! to tell you the troth sanctions were a real pain for us, imagine every time i use internet and i forget to connect VPN i get the "Unavailable in your country message" while visiting Unity or Google Code websites. but on the other hand there are some who are not that happy they think with this agreement we have lost decades of effort toward peacefull nuclear energy. there is one thi…

I am doubting the last sentence. Iran clearly has a nuclear weapons program and clearly that program has a constituency within Iran, although I am sure lots of Iranians don't want it or need it, but that's not the same as saying that nobody wants it

it's an expression. it means the majority.

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#126

Post by angrybits »

threeseed wrote: post #57
seivan wrote: post #46

My God, why didn't Roosevelt and Churchill think of giving billions in relief to the Third Reich. That would have solved everything. Chamberlain was a forgotten hero! Giving Mullahs access to create nuclear weapons. Taking their word for it that they won't. Yeah, this will end well. Just yesterday their Iranian proxies in Baghdad were burning American and Israeli flags. Vowing to destroy The Great Satan(s), why do we…

There are plenty of countries in the world that have questionable human rights records. Many of whom the "West" has quite strong relationships with e.g. China, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Russia. Putting a blindfold on and pretending you can just contain or ignore certain countries has failed as a strategy and will continue to fail. So unless you want to do something about Iran militarily (not feasible) then you are lookin…

> The US is not good at wars.

What? We can kick pretty much any country's ass six ways from Sunday. We admittedly have trouble with having the political fortitude to fully break our adversary's will to fight back, but I think that is a systemic issue with a faster flow of information (starting with Vietnam). It's not necessarily a US-specific problem, and it certainly doesn't mean the US is not "good at war".

While we can agree to disagree on the feasibility of a military solution, I can assure you that it's the threat of that possibility that drives diplomacy. Diplomacy without the threat of war to back it is more akin to begging than anything else.

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#127

Post by lentil_soup »

yoavm wrote: post #121
lentil_soup wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you punish an entire group of people by weakening their economy until their government does what an external entity wants them to do?. Seems quite a violent approach.

Every country has a right to forbid business relations with another country due to its government's policy. As an Israeli I think the boycott on Israel is a legitimate way to try influencing our policies even though the boycott hurts me as a citizen that oppose the occupation. You pay a price for having a dumb government. Just to clarify: I'm all for the deal with Iran, hoping for a better future for the Iranians.

True, you're right. But I guess if you have a way of achieving the same goals without doing that it should be favored?

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#128

Post by fit2rule »

0xFFC wrote: post #119
bsaul wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out or curiosity, why does the (religious) iranian regime keeps calling USA "the great devil" then ? Ps :reading some answers, i know about the history of conflicts between usa and iran. I was just pointing the fact that calling Iran a "natural ally" is a bit of a stretch.

Iranian here , and I am commenting from Iran.Iranian people maybe most pro usa people in middle east. and about government, they just need keep people busy because of they systematic corruption. Thats all. 10 years before , Ali Khamneai said following : "anyone who says we should communicate with USA is or idiot or our enemy/traitor". and guess what ? today , FM Zarif have record in our history for maximum time negot…

Thing is, this is also why America is enemies with Iran - without such an enemy, there is no justification for the $Trillions spent on American war hegemony.

So I think we've found the source of the problem: people want to kill each other because its profitable.

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#129

Post by bsaul »

jballanc wrote: post #101
bsaul wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

? Are you being sarcastic ? Since when did the US or Israel threatened Iran of anything ? It seems to me you're inversing causes and consequences. Hopefully looking at events chronologically will help you get things back in order.

Are you ignorant? or being willingly obtuse? Between the US and Iran, one of these countries supported a successful overthrow of the other country's democratically elected government. I'll let you figure out which country was the aggressor in that situation and then we can reconsider why Iran feels threatened by the US and its allies.

Are you talking about CIA games dating back to something like 70 years ago, during the cold war, to fight against USSR influence ? I don't think it's that relevant, unless you're willing to accept every pretext told by Iran.

The first consequence of having the nuclear bomb would not be for the Iran/US relationship, it will be local for the region. It'll mean that Iran will have an even bigger local military influence, knowing that no one will be able to attack them on their territory. Aka a highway to a full war between shiites and sunnites (which are probably starting their own nuclear program right at the moment).

Hearing the declaration of Iranien leader with respect to their neighbors, and seeing what's happening right now in Yemen, i wouldn't be surprised to see a new country vs country war coming in the next 5 years.

Re: Iran Nuclear Deal Reached

#130

Post by Tiktaalik »

bsaul wrote: post #5

Am i the only one amazed at the fact that we actually had to wait for iranians to accept to stop going toward nuclear weapons ? I mean, why did EU and US insist so much on wanting a deal ? It seemed to be that one side has all the leverage in the negociation and the other has none. We could have simply waited for the iranian regime to get so weakened that they'd simply surrender and accept every measure. So I don't u…

There's an article in the May issue of Monocle about the luxury fashion market in Iran. There's a vibrantly growing middle class and a surge of interest in luxury clothing and goods. However due to politics, major brands are kept out, and the stock is seasons behind and has to come through non official channels.

I can imagine business interests looking at the huge middle class market in Iran and putting pressure on governments to change the approach and open up the market to the west.

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