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Yanis Varoufakis opens up about his five month battle to save Greece

newstatesman.com

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Re: Yanis Varoufakis opens up about his five month battle to save Greece

#71

Post by danieltillett »

CrLf wrote: post #63
danieltillett wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually Greece has a printing press for Euros (apparently you can tell which euro notes are printed in Greece by the serial number). I have been half expecting Greece to solve all its problems by just printing.

The Euro notes has codes for both the issuing central bank and the printer facility. http://www.eurotracer.net/information/notes.php

Me thinks even the Greeks would not have too much problem putting the German code on their new notes. Of course this would be interpreted as a declaration of war by the eu so it would not be wise.

Re: Yanis Varoufakis opens up about his five month battle to save Greece

#72

Post by junto »

sandstrom wrote: post #49

While I agree with some of Varoufakis ideas (e.g. that Greece may be better of leaving the Euro, since internal devaluations are hard), he doesn't portray the other side objectively. Many of the suggested improvements are objectively sound, e.g. property taxes, tax collection in general, normalized VAT, reducing government corruption and red-tape, removing various monopolies, etc. Greece is the most corrupt country i…

To be fair, the vast majority of the bailouts have gone to paying back debts. Those debts were held with corporate German and foreign banks.

And here is the kicker; Those debts are now held by the ECB, which, is not supposed to be a lender of last resort, but now has become one by default. The corporate banks are now safe and have extricated themselves from the risky position they found themselves in 5 years ago.

The ECB doesn't care either way. Schauble secretly welcomes a Grexit, because without external support Greece can't move to a new Drachma. The logistics are just impossible by themselves. Schauble wants the rest of the Eurozone to witness what will happen when you exit the Euro without support (it won't be pretty).

Hi there France btw. You still like you early retirement, large civil service employment, string unions and social state? Well, you're number one on their hit list.

Re: Yanis Varoufakis opens up about his five month battle to save Greece

#73

Post by parasubvert »

roel_v wrote: post #34
adamc wrote: post #8

I wonder what effect the current EU "offer" to Greece will have on Britain's vote down the line, or on other states that may now have second thoughts about joining the euro. From my (American) perspective, it looks like being part of the Euro means giving Germany an awful lot of influence over your fiscal policy.

Of course, that's why the Greeks so desperately wanted to get out of the Euro, and why new countries have to be added to the Euro by beating them until they join. Oh wait, no. Despite all the 'omg the Germans are holding poor pplz hostage!', the Euro has massively lifted the economic prospects of tens if not hundreds of millions of people in a measly 10 or 15 years. Ask the Polish how bad the Euro has been for them,…

The projections of what "playing by the rules" will do for Greece in terms of recovery have been time and again completely wrong. "Follow by my rules and you'll only be subjected to a depression for a decade and a generation of people will be unemployed". When Europe implodes, again, we definitely know who to thank.

Re: Yanis Varoufakis opens up about his five month battle to save Greece

#74

Post by venomsnake »

jpfr wrote: post #30
venomsnake wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While I am not a big fan of austerity, one can ultimately only spend what you got. Wrong. You can always print money if you are the sovereign.

Printing money is like robbing those who still have cash as the currency is devalued. And it doesn't change a thing if you owe money in foreign currencies. Otherwise, Japan et al. would have long ramped up the printing presses.

Most of the japan debt is in yen and they have been running the printing press in overdrive for the last 25 years or so.

Re: Yanis Varoufakis opens up about his five month battle to save Greece

#75

Post by MrBuddyCasino »

junto wrote: post #42
agd wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately it is the Eurogroup who are not willing to listen or compromise. The IMF reports (including one leaked today http://news.forexlive.com/!/imf-finally-says-what-they-think... ) shows that Varoufakis was right all along and the debt is unsustainable, yet the Eurogroup does not listen and won't consider debt restructuring but wants to continue with the same failed and discredited policies.

I agree. The Eurogroup's real final target in this whole thing is France. The Germans want France to change their culture (pensions, social system, etc), but France is too big a target to go for straight off the bat. Varoufakis stated: "Based on months of negotiation, my conviction is that the German finance minister wants Greece to be pushed out of the single currency to put the fear of God into the French and have…

France has been on a decline since many years. They are slowly de-industrialising, and there is no sign that this trend is going to revert any time soon. [1]

So either they get their act together, which will be very hard due to mentality and political culture, or it will get much worse before it gets better. If France falls, it will be the end of the Euro. Germany is trying to fix these issues, in order to save the historical project of the European Union. Saying that Germany is just economically invading Greece is dishonest, there are huge amounts of German (and other country's) taxpayer money involved. Most people have written them off already.

[1] http://www.acting-man.com/?p=32993

Re: Yanis Varoufakis opens up about his five month battle to save Greece

#76

Post by agumonkey »

sandstrom wrote: post #49

While I agree with some of Varoufakis ideas (e.g. that Greece may be better of leaving the Euro, since internal devaluations are hard), he doesn't portray the other side objectively. Many of the suggested improvements are objectively sound, e.g. property taxes, tax collection in general, normalized VAT, reducing government corruption and red-tape, removing various monopolies, etc. Greece is the most corrupt country i…

> doesn't portray the other side objectively

That's the hardest part of this whole issue, everyone say something different. Greeks are ..., Germans are ..., Banks are ...

As a non educated (in that matter), it's impossible to understand anything without the feeling you end up as a fanboy for some party.

Re: Yanis Varoufakis opens up about his five month battle to save Greece

#77

Post by Mikeb85 »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #56
Mikeb85 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this response shows that you know nothing about economics or finance. > do something again the blatant corruption, burocratie and tax evasion Corruption and tax evasion are an economic problem, not a moral one. People decide whether or not to pay taxes based on many factors - convenience, value, habit, punishment, etc... In a 'developing' economy, like Greece, if there's a history of not paying taxes, you need to…

> Corruption and tax evasion are an economic problem, not a moral one. Not true. The Greek state has traditionally been seen as an enemy of the citizen and something to take advantage of. This is due to the muchtar system established hundreds of years ago by the Osman empire, establishing clientilism. E.g. Estonia is much better on all these metrics, but income levels are similar or below Greece. > Greece did not spe…

> New York and California have comparatively high tax rates, enormous housing costs and expensive wages.

That's why I'm bombarded with ads that brag about NY's startup program that allows you to operate for 10 years with NO taxes?

http://startup.ny.gov/ http://esd.ny.gov/BusinessPrograms/Taxes_Incentives.html

Anyhow, like I said - businesses and people will pay taxes if they see value - beyond NY's tax free startup program, those are the 2 most populous US states (access to labour). That is a competitive advantage. There's also easier access to financial capital - another advantage.

People don't necessarily go to where the taxes are the cheapest - they go to where there's the best combination of access to labour, capital, customers, taxes, etc... (or they stay put if they think their current location is 'good enough')

Think of human behaviour as a maximization curve - a constant attempt to attain maximum "utility" of our time.

> E.g. Estonia is much better on all these metrics, but income levels are similar or below Greece.

Estonia, business-wise, seems to have quite a few things going for it.

http://www.lowtax.net/features/Estonias-Advantages-571583.ht...

Just reiterates what I'm saying - paying taxes is based on a number of factors, none of them morality (not on a large scale anyway).

Edit - if Greece wants to collect more tax money, they need to provide a good reason for people to pay tax money. Given that the world is a big place and anyone with enough money can move quite easily, it needs to be a more compelling reason than the fear of punishment.

Re: Yanis Varoufakis opens up about his five month battle to save Greece

#78

Post by yrro »

bobcostas55 wrote: post #45
pfg wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Less than 10% of the bailout money was left to be used by the government for reforming its economy and safeguarding weaker members of society. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/29/where-did-the-g...

That's completely meaningless nonsense, money is fungible.

Doesn't change the fact that the previous bailout was in practice a bailout of French and German banks and other private bondholders.

Another case of profits being privatized and losses being socialized.

Re: Yanis Varoufakis opens up about his five month battle to save Greece

#79

Post by calibraxis »

junto wrote: post #72
sandstrom wrote: post #49

While I agree with some of Varoufakis ideas (e.g. that Greece may be better of leaving the Euro, since internal devaluations are hard), he doesn't portray the other side objectively. Many of the suggested improvements are objectively sound, e.g. property taxes, tax collection in general, normalized VAT, reducing government corruption and red-tape, removing various monopolies, etc. Greece is the most corrupt country i…

To be fair, the vast majority of the bailouts have gone to paying back debts. Those debts were held with corporate German and foreign banks. And here is the kicker; Those debts are now held by the ECB, which, is not supposed to be a lender of last resort, but now has become one by default. The corporate banks are now safe and have extricated themselves from the risky position they found themselves in 5 years ago. The…

Yes, Varoufakis mentioned: "Based on months of negotiation, my conviction is that the German finance minister wants Greece to be pushed out of the single currency to put the fear of God into the French and have them accept his model of a disciplinarian eurozone." (http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/07/11/behind-germanys-refusal...)

A bit like nuking Japan was the first shot in US's Cold War against USSR. (But fortunately not as immediately violent.)

Re: Yanis Varoufakis opens up about his five month battle to save Greece

#80

Post by CrLf »

roel_v wrote: post #34
adamc wrote: post #8

I wonder what effect the current EU "offer" to Greece will have on Britain's vote down the line, or on other states that may now have second thoughts about joining the euro. From my (American) perspective, it looks like being part of the Euro means giving Germany an awful lot of influence over your fiscal policy.

Of course, that's why the Greeks so desperately wanted to get out of the Euro, and why new countries have to be added to the Euro by beating them until they join. Oh wait, no. Despite all the 'omg the Germans are holding poor pplz hostage!', the Euro has massively lifted the economic prospects of tens if not hundreds of millions of people in a measly 10 or 15 years. Ask the Polish how bad the Euro has been for them,…

"the Euro has massively lifted the economic prospects of tens if not hundreds of millions of people in a measly 10 or 15 years"

Actually, no. The Euro has been mostly negative for all but a few of the eurozone countries. Portugal is a good example of this, as it has its economy has regressed to pre-Euro levels and there is a growing consensus that the Euro will keep its net-negative effect for the forseable future.

Nobody wants to get out of the Euro because of the exit shock and uncertainty, not because they see anything positive from staying inside.

The Euro was built basically as a renamed Deutshe Mark and this has never been fixed. Right now it's clear that it never will. A strong currency is always bad for weaker economies, which is pretty evident in the Greek case.

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