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Yanis Varoufakis opens up about his five month battle to save Greece

newstatesman.com

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Re: Yanis Varoufakis opens up about his five month battle to save Greece

#51

Post by pgeorgi »

RobertoG wrote: post #31
johnsea wrote: post #24

Egoistical showman. Not able to listen. Not able to compromise. Using inapropriate language (waterboarding, terrorist - insulting people who endure real waterboarding and/or are hurt by terrorist). Doesn't stop shooting at Schäuble (Germany), but in truth he was opposed by 19 European countries. External pressure is needed. Stoneage lefties like to discuss, well, preach, all day long while spending other (EU) citizen…

Sure, not able to listen and not able to compromise define the Greek side in all this. Where have you been? The policies imposed to Greece don't make more sense this time that they did the last time, and the last, and the last. But yes, we should all listen to the wise neoliberal policymakers, including the humble Herr Schäuble.

Schäuble, who maintained the funds of his party in the 90s and insists that he forgot about some 100k DM of unaccounted donations in an envelope (and by an arms dealer, no less).

Schäuble, who presides over the public KfW-Bank, which hosts the Greek recovery fund, where 15bn EUR in Greek assets are supposed to end up.

I wonder which transactions will be 'lost' this time.

Re: Yanis Varoufakis opens up about his five month battle to save Greece

#52

Post by bokononon »

roel_v wrote: post #34
adamc wrote: post #8

I wonder what effect the current EU "offer" to Greece will have on Britain's vote down the line, or on other states that may now have second thoughts about joining the euro. From my (American) perspective, it looks like being part of the Euro means giving Germany an awful lot of influence over your fiscal policy.

Of course, that's why the Greeks so desperately wanted to get out of the Euro, and why new countries have to be added to the Euro by beating them until they join. Oh wait, no. Despite all the 'omg the Germans are holding poor pplz hostage!', the Euro has massively lifted the economic prospects of tens if not hundreds of millions of people in a measly 10 or 15 years. Ask the Polish how bad the Euro has been for them,…

> Ask the Polish how bad the Euro has been for them, for example. Poland isn't in the Euro, its currency is the zloty.

Re: Yanis Varoufakis opens up about his five month battle to save Greece

#53

Post by andy_ppp »

roel_v wrote: post #41
xae wrote: post #2

Difficult not to love how he discusses everything with a very different language from traditional politans (or I would say, professional polititians). He sounds true and honest, and by no means a radical inciendary that wants to destroy the EU and the Euro. His political career has been cut short by massive pressure from all sides but he has gained sympathy for Syriza's cause worldwide in a very short time and noneth…

"True and honest"? Are we reading the same article? He sounds like a bitter extremist who doesn't know how to control himself in order to reach a certain goal, but instead like either a petulant child or an autistic person (depending on the day of the week, it seems) can only repeat 'the Greeks voted for no extra cuts yet stay in the Euro so we should get it' (no shit? and I'd like a pony) and 'my economics paper say…

You sound pretty bitter yourself.

I find it strangely Kafkaesque the way each country has their own vested interests in destroying Greece. We know absolutely that they will not pay this money back (and as a price Europe is destroying their country and seizing assets, a coup of kinds).

I think they should go bankrupt - and the banks will be falling over themselves to lend them money again! It's amazing that 90% of the Greek bailout money went to the Banks and that they are no longer exposed to the risks that they made, instead tax payers are.

It really feels as if the banks should be made to pay for making such unstable, non repayable depts? Just a thought.

Re: Yanis Varoufakis opens up about his five month battle to save Greece

#54

Post by tonyedgecombe »

adamc wrote: post #14
mrec wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is zero prospect of Britain joining the Euro; nobody's even talking about that. The possible upcoming referendum is about Britain leaving the EU.

Yes, I know. My question (with respect to Britain) is whether this will have any effect on the vote.

I doubt it, people know we aren't in the euro and aren't directly exposed to the Greek problem.

Re: Yanis Varoufakis opens up about his five month battle to save Greece

#55

Post by Mikeb85 »

roel_v wrote: post #41
xae wrote: post #2

Difficult not to love how he discusses everything with a very different language from traditional politans (or I would say, professional polititians). He sounds true and honest, and by no means a radical inciendary that wants to destroy the EU and the Euro. His political career has been cut short by massive pressure from all sides but he has gained sympathy for Syriza's cause worldwide in a very short time and noneth…

"True and honest"? Are we reading the same article? He sounds like a bitter extremist who doesn't know how to control himself in order to reach a certain goal, but instead like either a petulant child or an autistic person (depending on the day of the week, it seems) can only repeat 'the Greeks voted for no extra cuts yet stay in the Euro so we should get it' (no shit? and I'd like a pony) and 'my economics paper say…

Can't decide if you're more insulting to those who are autistic, to those who believe in democracy, or to those who are in academia...

Yanis Varoufakis' problem is that he was playing a different game. He was trying to be an economist and do the right thing for Greece when the Eurogroup was playing politics and trying to punish Greece. They never were interested in economics or a prosperous Greece, only in maintaining the power structure across Europe.

Re: Yanis Varoufakis opens up about his five month battle to save Greece

#56

Post by MrBuddyCasino »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #35
johnsea wrote: post #24

Egoistical showman. Not able to listen. Not able to compromise. Using inapropriate language (waterboarding, terrorist - insulting people who endure real waterboarding and/or are hurt by terrorist). Doesn't stop shooting at Schäuble (Germany), but in truth he was opposed by 19 European countries. External pressure is needed. Stoneage lefties like to discuss, well, preach, all day long while spending other (EU) citizen…

And this response shows that you know nothing about economics or finance. > do something again the blatant corruption, burocratie and tax evasion Corruption and tax evasion are an economic problem, not a moral one. People decide whether or not to pay taxes based on many factors - convenience, value, habit, punishment, etc... In a 'developing' economy, like Greece, if there's a history of not paying taxes, you need to…

> Corruption and tax evasion are an economic problem, not a moral one.

Not true. The Greek state has traditionally been seen as an enemy of the citizen and something to take advantage of. This is due to the muchtar system established hundreds of years ago by the Osman empire, establishing clientilism. E.g. Estonia is much better on all these metrics, but income levels are similar or below Greece.

> Greece did not spend other EU citizen's money

They took advantage of having access to "Germany's credit card", with interest rates dropping from 25% to 5% post Drachme. Then they proceeded to consume that money. Even in 2014, the public and private consumption relative to net national income was at 114% [1], a completely unsustainable level. If Europe wasn't financing elevated standards of living for Greece before the crisis, they certainly did in the last few years.

[1] http://www.cesifo-group.de/ifoHome/publications/docbase/deta...

> You know what hinders startups, business, and innovative people? A repressive tax regime.

New York and California have comparatively high tax rates, enormous housing costs and expensive wages. They seem to be doing just fine. Also see Germany, Austria, Switzerland and all of the Scandinavian countries.

Re: Yanis Varoufakis opens up about his five month battle to save Greece

#57

Post by roel_v »

theseatoms wrote: post #19

For those who are just catching up, I found the following article enlightening on the Greece situation: http://www.pragcap.com/greece ..especially the following line: - The EMU is a single currency system just like the USA is. The reason the USA works and the EMU doesn’t is because the USA has a system of rebalancing whereby poor states get more federal funding than wealthy states.

Yes, because when California almost went bankrupt in 2012 all they had to do was call Pennsylvania, who then promptly wrote a check for 1/2 of California's GDP, and then said a few years later, when California still hadn't fixed its ridiculous retirement fund shortfalls, 'Nah you know what, you have nice beaches we visit every now and then, let's call it even.'

Oh no wait, they didn't - and the amount of federal funding even New Mexico gets is dwarfed (per GDP) by the deficit the Greeks were trying to roll over - again. How many US states fail to collect 25 to 40% (depending on what you count) of taxes? If there were any, how long do you think other states would keep that state afloat?

Re: Yanis Varoufakis opens up about his five month battle to save Greece

#58

Post by peterfirefly »

biehl wrote: post #29
_ph_ wrote: post #10

While I am not a big fan of austerity, one can ultimately only spend what you got. There were several months in which the Greece government had broken with the austerity agreements but in exchange did not manage to achieve anything which could be called an improvement of the country income situation. As a consequence the gap between income and spending even widened without giving positive impulses to the Greek econom…

I am not sure what "country income situation" you are talking about. "The Greek budget showed a primary surplus of 1.506 billion euros in the January-May period this year" http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/06/25/greek-budget-prim...

One of the EZ requirements for negotiations on a third package is that ELSTAT becomes independent of the politicians...

("Oh no! Evil Germans! Austerity!")

Re: Yanis Varoufakis opens up about his five month battle to save Greece

#59

Post by roel_v »

bokononon wrote: post #52
roel_v wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, that's why the Greeks so desperately wanted to get out of the Euro, and why new countries have to be added to the Euro by beating them until they join. Oh wait, no. Despite all the 'omg the Germans are holding poor pplz hostage!', the Euro has massively lifted the economic prospects of tens if not hundreds of millions of people in a measly 10 or 15 years. Ask the Polish how bad the Euro has been for them,…

> Ask the Polish how bad the Euro has been for them, for example. Poland isn't in the Euro, its currency is the zloty.

Uh oh, you're right and I was even in Poland not that long ago, I meant in the EU, but still an egg on my face.

Re: Yanis Varoufakis opens up about his five month battle to save Greece

#60

Post by andy_ppp »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #55
roel_v wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"True and honest"? Are we reading the same article? He sounds like a bitter extremist who doesn't know how to control himself in order to reach a certain goal, but instead like either a petulant child or an autistic person (depending on the day of the week, it seems) can only repeat 'the Greeks voted for no extra cuts yet stay in the Euro so we should get it' (no shit? and I'd like a pony) and 'my economics paper say…

Can't decide if you're more insulting to those who are autistic, to those who believe in democracy, or to those who are in academia... Yanis Varoufakis' problem is that he was playing a different game. He was trying to be an economist and do the right thing for Greece when the Eurogroup was playing politics and trying to punish Greece. They never were interested in economics or a prosperous Greece, only in maintainin…

Absolutely my reading of the situation too. I hear these two sides of the argument "Greece is a petulant and lazy bad state, hit them" and the one I subscribe to "let's forgive Greece, it was on the banks to lend stupid amounts of money to them".
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