The Electric Car • Hacker News Board

Re: The Electric Car

#231

Post by eru » Tue, Jul 14, 2015, 5:29 AM UTC

staunch wrote: post #135

I find even this view to be pessimistic and limited, because it assumes we need to keep fairly conventional (but electric) cars around, which we don't! It's likely we'll rapidly end up with something like the computer controlled "carpods" Google is building, which could be radically cheaper than any car people have to be able to drive. Even if they can only go 45mph, that's enough to navigate most major cities at an…

Vehicles driving at most 25 mph are regulated much lighter than `cars' in the USA, that's why Google chose that speed limit for their `carpods'.

Re: The Electric Car

#232

Post by philwelch » Tue, Jul 14, 2015, 5:34 AM UTC

wagner12 wrote: post #186

philwelch wrote: post #54

This might happen, but I think Geoff is a little too breathless here. Smartphones cost up to $200 with contract. (Approximately nobody buys unlocked phones in the US.) Almost anybody could scrape up $200, and for those who can't, there are $0-with-contract smartphones by now and The Tesla Model S costs $69,900. That is a hilarious amount of money to spend on a car. That's $18,000 more than a Mercedes-Benz E-Class. $2…

$20,000 more than an Audi A6. I don't know where you're getting your numbers, but my A6 I bought 8 YEARS AGO cost more than $49,900. $70k is a lot of money without a doubt, but it's not out of line for a mid-range luxury car. Unfortunately I don't find the Model S to be as nice to drive or ride in (except in terms of acceleration) as the gasoline cars in the same price bracket. That will change, it's not a knock agai…

I literally googled "Audi A6". The base MSRP starts at $44,800.

Re: The Electric Car

#233

Post by philwelch » Tue, Jul 14, 2015, 5:36 AM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #154

philwelch wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's unfortunate that people still live in suburban areas that don't have transit.

Humans have not historically all lived in hyper-dense cities that make public transportation more practical than private automobiles. Like many others, I have no intention of doing so personally. And, outside of such locations (and I'd like to see the plan to, for example, move everyone in the South Bay to a few very dense urban centers) it's generally inconvenient to depend on public transit.

People have not historically relied upon private car ownership to get around, either, but the trend of history for the past several centuries is towards urbanization.

Re: The Electric Car

#234

Post by threeseed » Tue, Jul 14, 2015, 5:41 AM UTC

krschultz wrote: post #175

threeseed wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you have missed the big population trends of the last few decades. More and more people are moving to inner city apartments every one of which is not designed with electric cars in mind. And with property prices reaching astronomical amounts in many places e.g. Australia, UK, Europe, HK, SG the lure of cheaper but smaller apartments is only going to grow. For me this is is one of the big advantages of hydroge…

It is massively cheaper to solve the problem of extending electricity 5 meters from the inside of the apartment building to the parking lot than it would be to build a global hydrogen distribution network.

You're missing the point. Who is going to pay to extend electricity into each car bay of an apartment building car park ? It's a significant cost that any property developer is not currently doing (they clearly see a weak market) nor likely to do for the handful of people who will request it.

Much of a future hydrogen distribution network already exists (we have transportation companies, gas stations etc) all of whom would be more than happy to add a new technology. Just like they have done already with LPG.

Re: The Electric Car

#235

Post by toephu2 » Tue, Jul 14, 2015, 5:42 AM UTC

Seems that this article fails to mention that owning a house is a prerequisite to buying an EV (electric vehicle). If you rent a room in a house, it's unlikely the landlord is going to install a charger just for you, and the same goes for apartment complexes. So that already excludes a large portion of the population from buying an EV. I bet 90% of EV owners are not renting their residence. (The other 10% can charge at work or other places, but relative to the number of parking spaces, count how many charging stations there are at BigCo)

Re: The Electric Car

#236

Post by ohsnap » Tue, Jul 14, 2015, 5:47 AM UTC

toephu2 wrote: post #229

mschuster91 wrote: post #118

While I agree with the author that electric vehicles will in not long time dominate the car market, I strongly disagree with point #3: > Gas stations will start to go out of business as many more electric cars are sold, making gasoline powered vehicles even more inconvenient. Gas stations even today don't make money with gas, it's next to a loss leader to get customers into the store and spend money on snacks and car…

>Gas stations even today don't make money with gas I've heard this a lot, but is this really true? Gas is highly regulated in the U.S. and supposedly a Mom & Pop gas station's gas is just as good as Shell or Chevron..(because they are inspected yearly by the local county's Weights and Measurements department) But the price difference can be quite large, e.g., 15%+ higher sometimes. Also I'm curious how Costco gas is…

For Costco, gas is a loss leader for custom loyalty. People go crazy for saving $4 dollars for gas, even if it means waiting 15min in line.

Re: The Electric Car

#237

Post by PinguTS » Tue, Jul 14, 2015, 5:50 AM UTC

monk_e_boy wrote: post #82

curiousjorge wrote: post #31

I think the article is overly optimistic and derives some sort of future prediction based on a simplified past performance of a totally different market. Tesla is a luxury , many of us can't afford it and if we could we would most likely opt for BMW or Benz. The reason these other car makers aren't moving yet is they are learning from Tesla. You don't want to be a first mover in this industry, you want to move so sli…

I think people in the 2nd hand car market (like me) will quickly switch to electric. They are simpler to fix and cheaper to fix. Nearly all my cars die with head gasket issues, or oil leaks or timing belt issues. does quick count so that's 4 of my cars and 2 of my partners. Electric engines won't die like that. And when they do, just grab a used one from a junked car and off you go. With 'in wheel' electric motors, t…

They are simpler to fix and cheaper to fix.

If you ignore a lot of things. My current car, 2001 Volvo S60, which I still drive as the first owner with now 200.000 km. I had one issue with the drive train, the clutch broke. Everything else which got replaced you will find in the Tesla itself: Tires, Brakes, Air conditioning. Yes, I am still doing regular service to have it in this condition.

BTW: The Tesla has a gearbox. You know, gearboxes need oil as well, like every regular car/device with moving gear.

Electric engines won't die like that.

Yeah, right. Read on: http://www.dailytech.com/Following+Reports+of+Drive+Motor+Re...

Re: The Electric Car

#238

Post by _ph_ » Tue, Jul 14, 2015, 5:52 AM UTC

dzhiurgis wrote: post #214

brc wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

one-pedal responsive operation is a win in the same way multi-touch is a win. It doesn't sound like a big deal,but once you get used to it, everything else seems dated. Operating multiple pedals to operate a vehicle is a leftover from crude technology. Sure, some people like it that way (a set that includes me). But for most people, once they get used to push pedal a bit to go slow, a lot to go fast, let go to stop -…

You must be joking mate. All movies since 90s tell me that most Americans can't even drive manual transmission. Modern automatic transmission is totally invisible. Some cars even have variator transmission. I get it, the car is more dynamic. So what? It's an incremental change. By the way, if you do not like pedals, there is even better technology, called cruise control.

Most electric cars have regenerative breaking. So just lifting off the power pedal will decelerate it (regaining energy for the battery). This means, in most situations you don't even have to switch over to the break pedal, which is quite convenient. For this reason I miss my old stick-shifted car which had a short gear reduction ratio. I could drive it in the city without breaking except for reaching a stop.

Re: The Electric Car

#239

Post by butwhy » Tue, Jul 14, 2015, 5:55 AM UTC

toephu2 wrote: post #235

Seems that this article fails to mention that owning a house is a prerequisite to buying an EV (electric vehicle). If you rent a room in a house, it's unlikely the landlord is going to install a charger just for you, and the same goes for apartment complexes. So that already excludes a large portion of the population from buying an EV. I bet 90% of EV owners are not renting their residence. (The other 10% can charge…

If you're just commuting; charge it at your workplace? park it anywhere you can access a power outlet? If absolutely nothing is available, spend an hour of your time on the weekend using a supercharger.

Re: The Electric Car

#240

Post by _ph_ » Tue, Jul 14, 2015, 6:08 AM UTC

elorant wrote: post #66

If electric cars are going to become mainstream we certainly need something far more affordable than Model S. With the money it costs I could buy a Mercedes S-Class which is unparalleled in terms of quality and ride comfort. Furthermore in regions like Europe you can run in all short of inconsistencies with incompatible sockets/recharge stations. Just the other day I was watching a video [1] of a car journalist who t…

While it is a very nice car, the i3 is really limited by its range. Tesla had journalists take a S from Munich to Amsterdam and back without issues a year ago. It took 1-2 hours more (on an 10h trip) than a petrol car would have taken, assuming the petrol car driver did not require rests. But indeed, charging networks need to be expanded/unified. This also sets Tesla apart from other manufacturers, they are taking care of the charging infrastructure too.