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If you've nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear

jacquesmattheij.com

301–310 of 321 posts

Re: If you've nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear

#301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been perhaps the most interesting thing, from a military tactics view, of the latest wars. That a moderately armed insurgency can hold against a very sophisticated military. The limits of smart weapons. In many ways it bolsters the argument that the 2nd amendment, as a bulwark against the emergence of a federal police state, is not actually outdated.

From a capabilities standpoint, the latest wars have the very sophisticated armies showing an awful lot of self restraint. Another way of putting it is that the longevity of the insurgents probably says more about the mission that was handed to the military than it does about the ability of the military to deal with the tactics.

   > very sophisticated armies showing an awful lot of 
   > self restraint.
Restraint how? Sure making the place an uninhabitable wasteland is within the realm of possibility with a sophisticated army but to what end?

Re: If you've nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been perhaps the most interesting thing, from a military tactics view, of the latest wars. That a moderately armed insurgency can hold against a very sophisticated military. The limits of smart weapons. In many ways it bolsters the argument that the 2nd amendment, as a bulwark against the emergence of a federal police state, is not actually outdated.

> moderately armed from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet%E2%80%93Afghan_War#1980... : > In the border region with Pakistan, the mujahideen would often launch 800 rockets per day. Between April 1985 and January 1987, they carried out over 23,500 shelling attacks on government targets.

I would say that compared to the Soviets the Mujahideen were only moderately armed. Even more so the Taliban vs the US in the border regions of Pakistan.

Re: If you've nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear

#303

The title alone is misleading. It presupposes that its wrong to have something to hide. I have plenty I'd prefer to be hidden, none of it illegal. Whats so damned wrong with having things to hide? Discretion used to be a virtue. What happened?

The title is intentional. I dare say it is designed to stir things up and get you to read the article. Did you read it?

Re: If you've nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that the advice you'd give to a 5'5" woman who lives alone? "When the attacker gets in your house, grab a kitchen knife"? 'Cause I'd say, grab a shotgun and shoot in their general direction. Good for you that as a brave man called Rory it's easy to get rid of invaders with a kitchen knife. You'll probably have the same results with a fake knife.

If I was a 5'5" woman I would get out of the house and call the cops. Still preferable to killing someone. This comes to mind (particularly the part about "If he is in superior strength"): "If your enemy is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him. If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant. If he is taking his ease…

What if the invader is blocking the door?

What if the invader is carrying a baseball bat?

What if he wants to rape the woman? What if he takes a cut from the knife, then knocks out the woman, rapes her, and murders her?

"Preferable"? Is the invader killing the woman preferable to the woman killing the invader?

It's amazing how shortsighted you are! "Just do this" or "just do that."

Talk to any kind of instructor in self defense or martial arts, and they will tell you to not get into a knife fight, or you will get cut. All of your ideas rely on the invader being rational and more interested in his own well-being than anything else. Yet the fact that he's a home invader shows that is not the case.

Firearms are equalizers. They make the 5'2" woman just as dangerous as the 6'+ 200+ lb. man. They allow her to defend herself from beyond the invader's reach. They make noise to draw attention to the fact that something bad is happening.

Rational people realize that they have nothing to fear from law-abiding gun owners who only want to be prepared to protect their loved ones from evil people. And rational people realize that evil people are not going away anytime soon. Rational people realize that there are plenty of irrational people who may do them harm, and that the only effective method of self-defense is to have a firearm and know how to use it.

Re: If you've nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if I call myself "privileged" in this instance then all of a sudden people would be whining about social justice warriors or something like that No one has ever managed successfully to divorce the concept of privilege from the implication of blame, so saying that someone has privilege (or, worse in this context, is privileged), is tantamount to saying that they're a bad person and they should feel bad. Is it an…

>is tantamount to saying that they're a bad person and they should feel bad What makes you (hypothetically) a bad person is having privilege and supporting policy which benefits the privileged at the expense of the unprivileged . The blame is assigned not for being a member of a privileged class, but for forming and acting on political opinions (including acceptance of the status quo) based on that privilege. People…

People who use privilege as an argument aren't asking you to be ashamed of being white, they're asking you to be ashamed of being conservative.

Well that's a big problem too.

It's essentially erasing the experience and stories of an entire swath of the political spectrum, and shaming people for their political orientation.

Re: If you've nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good percentage of the time a weapon used by a homeowner during a home invasion is used against them. Get out of the house and let the authorities deal with it. Your stuff isn't worth your life or your family's continued safety. Remember that most burglars aren't as shocked or scared as you are during a burglary. It's a routine for them. Their attention is focused on what to do if someone in the house notices. If y…

A good percentage of the time a weapon used by a homeowner during a home invasion is used against them. This quasi-statistic (which I will take at face value), while interesting from a sociological perspective, does not actually inform individual decisionmaking. It's a thinly veiled way of saying to someone "you can't be trusted to handle a gun/knife/whatever properly" - which, even if true for the majority of humans…

I fail to see how being punched in the face suggests anything other than that the perp is a maladjusted adult.

Re: If you've nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear

#307
post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about you decide what's best for yourself and I'll decide what's best for me.

Are you a 5' 5" woman who was handed a gun to protect herself against someone likely to over power them? Or are you someone who was personally offended by the generalization that they might be in the group of people, considered Normal Humans, who don't handle life-threatening situations like a person in the special forces?

Or maybe you just need to climb off down your high horse. You don't know better than any other person throwing their opinion out in this thread. I'm almost sad that I commented given how this has gone to shit and the pretense of an intelligent conversation is gone...

Fact is, as an American, particularly one who lives in a southern state where a gun can (legally) be purchased for cash in a grocery store parking lot with no record, if someone were to break into my house, there is a non-trivial chance that were someone to break into my home they would be armed. Given that I'm single and live by myself, were someone to break in all I would have to do is take a defensive position in some room, phone the police, and announce to the intruder that police are on their way and that I am armed. Now what if I had a wife and kids? That changes the dynamic. What do you plan on doing in that case? Running through a house with a potentially armed intruder while you are not armed? Truth be told, there aren't a lot of wide open spaces in a house and as a 6'3", 230lb male could probably overpower a single intruder. What if you have more than one? I'm a boy scout at heart. Be Prepared.

How likely is all of this? Dunno, my brother has suffered an armed home invasion. My neighbor was luckily not home when his was broken into. A coworker almost got carjacked last month, and him being armed saved his ass. Hell, I once narrowly missed getting into a car accident and when I pulled over to make sure the other car that ran off the road was fine, I nearly got jumped by a couple guys that had a couple inches and quite a few pounds of muscle on me. I'd rather not get the shit beat out of me because someone got some mud on their Mercedes. Draw a line in the sand, if they cross it they fucked up. Hell, just last week my buddy got robbed by 3 punk teenagers when he got out of his car at his girlfriend's apartment complex.

I don't think owning a firearm makes me "deal with things like I'm in the special forces", but maybe I'm just an outlier. Truth be told, I know folks that are wholesome, responsible individuals who want protection, and I know folks who illegally own firearms and don't know the first thing about how to properly handle a firearm. It's a mixed bag of nuts and only reinforces the notion that damn near anyone who wants a gun will have one. I certainly wish I lived in a Western European country (for more reasons than a little more sanity about firearms... if only my mother had attained US-German dual citizenship as she very well could have, oh well) and this wasn't as much of a thing, but I don't and I doubt I'll have much luck getting over there in the near future, so I've got to play the hand I've been dealt. Now as for assuming us firearms owners are a bunch of knuckle dragging, Dirty Harry wannabes, please reconsider your stereotype. The large majority of folks I know down here are responsible folk.

Re: If you've nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear

#308
post #285
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment made me get off my ass and remember my YC login. Your post parses correctly, but what you're saying doesn't really correspond with reality. > Guns can even fire accidentally, with an accidental discharge on dropping the firearm being a possibility on any gun without a firing pin block (which is practically any long gun, the kind you can buy at Walmart in some states, with no waiting period in some states…

> bringing a gun to a knife fight I'm so glad I live in the UK where both criminals and self-defence is mostly knife based. I think the American style of "bringing a gun to a knife fight" just escalates everything. You think you need a gun in order to kill a would-be assailant. The OP says he used a knife to scare them off. I know which I prefer.

tl;dr - the point of a weapon in this situation is to project and multiply force, not to kill. Firearms are the best means of doing so.

> You think you need a gun in order to kill a would-be assailant. The OP says he used a knife to scare them off. I know which I prefer.

I guess the point I'm trying to make and I should have phrased this more clearly, is that the primary purpose of having a weapon in this situation (either as a criminal or in the case of home defence) isn't to kill someone - it's to project force. Guns and knives are both force multipliers, it's just that a gun is much more efficient and therefore a much better force multiplier. The point isn't to kill someone, it's to coerce them with the threat of force to do what you want them to.

OP was making that threat when he scared off his home intruder(s) by holding out a knife and 'leaving them an exit' - in essence he was saying "leave my home or I will use potentially lethal force on you." The situation doesn't fundamentally change if OP is armed with a knife or a firearm; it's just the strength of that threat is greatly increased.

Another way to look at this - if OP and his assailant are rough equals in terms of ability to do harm to each other, it doesn't matter if OP has a knife or a gun, as long as he has one or the other. Anything that amplifies his ability to enforce his threat of force should be enough to tip the balance of power is his favour (assuming a rational adversary). Guns only become necessary or useful when there's a disparity between the assailant and the now hypothetical OP. There's a moderately well known case in America where a Texas woman's home was being attacked by two men (it turned out they wanted to steal her husband's prescription painkillers). Her ability to coerce these men without a weapon was extremely limited. However, she had a firearm, and was able to stop the attack through the threat, and use, of force.

> I think the American style of "bringing a gun to a knife fight" just escalates everything.

I mean, you're right. The problem is that a) things have escalated, and b) de-escalating it would mean deep systemic changes to the American Constitution and the perceived balance of power between the State and the Citizen. The reasoning behind the 2nd Amendment is two fold - first it's to provide for common defense in the form of a State militia, which is largely a moot point in this country. The second, and this is a bit controversial, is to provide citizens with a means of resisting the Federal government in the event of tyranny. One would think this would be a moot point as well, in a country that spends an obscene amount of money on its armed forces, but it has moral significance - saying that at the last, the citizen is responsible for the protection of their own liberty, and preserving the means of that protection.

Re: If you've nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear

#309
post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guns don't make me feel safe. Being properly trained on how to use defensive force makes me feel safe. The error in your logic is that you're imagining yourself with a weapon, which indeed, is laughable and provably unsafe. Edit: not going to bother replying and further make this thread a gun debate. Just want to state that YouTube videos of comedic skits and accidents doesn't nullify any argument. Humans will make m…

> Humans will make mistakes; that's a fact of life. I agree. This is a fact of life. This combined with the utterly vanishingly tiny chance that you will be the victim of a serial killer make gun ownership for the purpose of safety absurd. Own a gun all you want. But at least realize that you and your family are actually less safe because of it!

You're making incredible judgements about an individual who clearly spends the time to learn how to be a responsible gun owner. What you're equating is someone who says they know karate because they watch a lot of kung fu movies. This is a guy who regularly trains at a dojo.

Not everyone who owns a gun has the proper discipline to learn how to use their weapon. I call those people statistics, and they set a bad example for the rest of us who respect our tools.

Re: If you've nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear

#310
post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you a 5' 5" woman who was handed a gun to protect herself against someone likely to over power them? Or are you someone who was personally offended by the generalization that they might be in the group of people, considered Normal Humans, who don't handle life-threatening situations like a person in the special forces?

Or maybe you just need to climb off down your high horse. You don't know better than any other person throwing their opinion out in this thread. I'm almost sad that I commented given how this has gone to shit and the pretense of an intelligent conversation is gone... Fact is, as an American, particularly one who lives in a southern state where a gun can (legally) be purchased for cash in a grocery store parking lot w…

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