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I, Racist

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Re: I, Racist

#51

Post by peterhadlaw »

random28345 wrote: post #44
peterhadlaw wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't understand why the down vote.

> Don't understand why the down vote. Because you're weighing in on a complicated subject without considering your inherent biases. You're conflating the success of individuals with equal opportunity. Having a black president doesn't mean we're in a post-racial society, being able to point to black athletes and movie stars doesn't mean there's no disaprites in educational funding or discrimination in employment. But…

> There will always be inequality in the world.

I'm not dismissing inequality. I'm saying that b!tching about it gets you nowhere and even worse, is a sorry excuse. There will always be people with more and with less. If you want more, you go out and get it, for yourself, by yourself, against all odds.

And what advantages are you talking about? Because I was referring to my parents who grew up in communist Poland, where my mom as a kid dragged the entire stores worth of butter home after rations were lifted. As a kid, in complete innocence, bought all the butter in the store because she was afraid of there not being more butter in the future. Or my dad, who to this day, still has bread soaked in milk as his ingrained go to food when hungry.

Re: I, Racist

#52

Post by rabbyte »

_blrj wrote: post #18
cmurf wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a transparent ad hominem attack, slandering the author as racist for the sole purpose to reduce his credibility, with the goal of shutting down a rational conversation on racism. I was at first attempted to call your statement hyperbole. But then I realized that's exactly the insidiousness of white privilege that I cut you some slack by thinking you're just being silly.

No I mean, factually, it's reverse-racism. It's not an opinion, the author talks about racial issues and then makes prejudicial statements about all white people: > And White people, every single one of you, are complicit in this racism because you benefit directly from it. > every single one of you > complicit in this racism What else is this suppose to say besides, "all white people are racists"? Why is that okay f…

You don't have to be racist to be complicit with racism. The OP would probably suggest that by going defensive and getting hung up on whether this applies to you personally, you're helping maintain a racist system the same way the Aunt couldn't absorb the accusation enough to see she's living in segregated neighborhoods where she could directly influence the state of racism but won't because she doesn't see her place in it.

EDIT- I think it's interesting the parallel between this and womens issues where a man will discount a womans perspective by pointing out "not all men are like that"

Re: I, Racist

#53

Post by JoeAltmaier »

mplscoder wrote: post #49
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't go overboard, there. The idea that 'white people' are disappearing is a racist notion. Because of an ancient notion that if you are 'polluted' by even 1% 'black blood' then you're not white. On the face of it, that's nonsense. Why not say that even 1% 'white blood' makes you white? Then the USA is almost entirely white. And half a percent of the USA are running the whole country. I suspect they are all old whit…

What's the point of talking if you are going to just make up stuff I supposedly said, you're arguing with things you imagined I said. Did I say "white people are disappearing" No. I don't know where this 'ancient notion' stuff you are arguing with comes from either. I can't argue on the internet with someone who can't read.

Ok, sorry, I didn't actually mean to attack you at all. I was injecting the comment that what it means to be white or black is a flawed notion, and any discussion around that is likewise flawed. I retract any impression you have that I was criticizing you personally, and retire from the discussion.

Re: I, Racist

#54

Post by scrumper »

_blrj wrote: post #18
cmurf wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a transparent ad hominem attack, slandering the author as racist for the sole purpose to reduce his credibility, with the goal of shutting down a rational conversation on racism. I was at first attempted to call your statement hyperbole. But then I realized that's exactly the insidiousness of white privilege that I cut you some slack by thinking you're just being silly.

No I mean, factually, it's reverse-racism. It's not an opinion, the author talks about racial issues and then makes prejudicial statements about all white people: > And White people, every single one of you, are complicit in this racism because you benefit directly from it. > every single one of you > complicit in this racism What else is this suppose to say besides, "all white people are racists"? Why is that okay f…

What else is this suppose to say besides, "all white people are racists"?

Re: the complicit because we all benefit, I'm not sure that your argument holds. The author isn't calling all white people racist; he's saying that all white people benefit from racism. That is subtly different.

You may have a case to build around whether we all directly benefit from racism, or whether we simply don't suffer because of it. The latter position is surely close to axiomatic but the former requires more thought.

Re: I, Racist

#55

Post by benjohnson »

DanBC wrote: post #47
mplscoder wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you can't follow the point.

I'm having trouble - the point is incoherent. You said that whites are becoming a minority in Europe. I asked for an example and you pointed to Muslim (who are not necessarily non-white) population of Germany, and quoted a 3million number. The muslim population of Germany by your own figures is fucking tiny. The black population of Germany is even smaller, less than 500,000 people. So how does less than 10% of the po…

The population speculation is based on the observation that recent immigrants tend to have more children than native European populations.

Re: I, Racist

#56

Post by cmurf »

_blrj wrote: post #18
cmurf wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a transparent ad hominem attack, slandering the author as racist for the sole purpose to reduce his credibility, with the goal of shutting down a rational conversation on racism. I was at first attempted to call your statement hyperbole. But then I realized that's exactly the insidiousness of white privilege that I cut you some slack by thinking you're just being silly.

No I mean, factually, it's reverse-racism. It's not an opinion, the author talks about racial issues and then makes prejudicial statements about all white people: > And White people, every single one of you, are complicit in this racism because you benefit directly from it. > every single one of you > complicit in this racism What else is this suppose to say besides, "all white people are racists"? Why is that okay f…

You are confused. Being complicit in, and benefiting from racism doesn't make someone racist.

The author's argument is that you have no say in this system of white privilege. It's neither opt in nor opt out, because that is the system. You get it whether you want it or not. He's not saying you're a racist because of this inheritance. He's saying it's a self-rewarding and pepetuating system that will not change until those who have the privilege a.) become aware of it and b.) decide to change it.

I don't speak for the author, but I'd say if you don't recognize or accept white privilege's existance, then you're oblivious. Exhibits A, B, C, D the're all around you and the author listed a number of examples of how it manifests.

The dilemma though, those of us who accept that white privilege exists and realize we benefit from it, and yet say and do nothing? We're certainly a little bit racist, because we're tacitly accepting the underlying premise: not my problem, I'm OK. That's definitely racist in the face of blatant inequality that we ourselves recognize. Through the recognition and acceptance white privilege exists, that I benefit from it, I've just ethically obligated myself through that awareness to change the discourse with the goal of changing the system. If I don't do that, complicity becomes racism.

Now if we want to play a little game of self-forgiveness, we can start singing the Avenue Q song, 'Everybody's a Little Bit Racist!"

However, I think it's hyperbole when the author writes, "Millions of Black lives are valued less than a single White person’s hurt feelings." I don't really know what that means. I'd say one black life probably is valued less (in terms of policy) than somewhere around a million white people's hurt feelings. That's pretty disgusting, but it's not just more plausible, it's likely.

Re: I, Racist

#57

Post by GoldenHomer »

VeejayRampay wrote: post #26
GoldenHomer wrote: post #24

I can understand his anger and frustration, but come on. http://www.jamesmaystock.com/essays/images/InterracialMurder... Source of image: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/...

What about the fact that there is a system of ghetto-ization that ensures that a huge chunk of the black population is marginalized and ostracized? What about the fact that the worst areas (where said crimes are committed) of the densely populated urban swaths are disproportionately inhabited by African-Americans? What about institutionalized educational and police racism? What about the presence of drugs and the lac…

I am sadden that you are justifying black murderers.

Re: I, Racist

#58

Post by mercer »

jgroszko wrote: post #23
scrumper wrote: post #3

Point is well argued and carries a lot of weight. It's uncomfortable reading. As a white person coming from the UK to the US, I noticed a stark contrast in black participation in society between the two countries. While not claiming Britain is perfect, my metropolitan southern experience included a lot of black people on an equal or senior footing on various axes of professional, financial, social, etc. That experien…

I've noticed this in a few BBC shows vs. American shows. In a British TV show there will be characters that just happen to be black, but in an American show it's going to get talked about eventually. Admittedly they aren't the same genres, but the shows that immediately come to mind for me like this are Sherlock and Dr. Who vs. say 30 Rock or Community.

I really like how New Girl handled the issue. If my memory is correct, it didn't really mention anything about their relatively large black cast, until they was explicitly highlighted this fact in one of the final episodes.

Re: I, Racist

#59

Post by radu_floricica »

osazuwa wrote: post #4
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #2

Uh, this is like a blatantly reverse-racist article.

Ironically, your comment is the reason the article was written.

Still doesn't make it wrong. I didn't read the whole thing, but the bias was there. His aunt moved from a "black" neighborhood because it was worse - and yes, there is a correlation between bad neighborhoods and black ones. But this doesn't makes his aunt racist, it just means she doesn't want to live in a shitty place.

I'm not american so I don't give a damn about racism, so I can say things which can't be said in public: black culture is inferior (muhaha... I trample on your cultural relativism) and has many toxic elements. It's stupid to blame race, but it's still fact that culture makes a hellof a lot of difference by itself, including more likely to have shitty neighborhoods and white aunts moving out of them.

So yes, you could call overly "reverse-racist" a point of view which willfully assigns to racism what can be explained otherwise.

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