Impulsive Rich Kid, Impulsive Poor Kid • Hacker News Board

Re: Impulsive Rich Kid, Impulsive Poor Kid

#31

Post by xenadu02 » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 4:37 PM UTC

heedspin wrote: post #26

swombat wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's part of the idea behind basic income. There are two major angles I think: economic and moral. Economically, there are a lot of costs that are taken out of the system if we implement basic income, everything from means-tested support (the means testing is very expensive and prone to fraud, etc), to crime that you mention, to the terrible and yet unmeasured opportunity cost of still having the majority of the popu…

Instead of basic income, what if "basic needs" were all free: Food, shelter, healthcare, and recreation. Money would only be free for people who work. Money gives the freedom to do consume goods that are not free. Sigh. And now to tear down my own thought. Maybe "free basic needs" works (psychologically) for everyone reading HN. But I'm afraid it could destroy a percentage of the population. If someone has no fundame…

>If someone has no fundamental drive to work,

The research shows this is an extremely tiny portion of the population. The vast majority of people will find some kind of productive enterprise.

It seems paradoxical but giving homeless people free housing with no strings attached tends to end with them getting a job and rejoining society. They almost never just lay around all day doing nothing.

It's one of the last great Victorian lies still infecting us today.

Re: Impulsive Rich Kid, Impulsive Poor Kid

#32

Post by swombat » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 6:16 PM UTC

catbird wrote: post #30

heedspin wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of basic income, what if "basic needs" were all free: Food, shelter, healthcare, and recreation. Money would only be free for people who work. Money gives the freedom to do consume goods that are not free. Sigh. And now to tear down my own thought. Maybe "free basic needs" works (psychologically) for everyone reading HN. But I'm afraid it could destroy a percentage of the population. If someone has no fundame…

I don't understand all these posts worrying about "What would a person do without a job." What do retired people do? What do kids do during summer vacation? They live a relaxing and enjoyable life, spending time with friends and family, and pursuing their interests. Sounds good to me!

Some people who retire die of it. Being told by society that you are no longer useful can kill. Obviously, that's not true of most people, but it does happen.

However, I do think the main reason it happens is also because it is accompanied by the ambient message that those who don't work are worthless, drains on society. If not working was more accepted, the death rate of retirement would likely be much lower.

Re: Impulsive Rich Kid, Impulsive Poor Kid

#33

Post by bravo_alpha » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 7:11 PM UTC

xenadu02 wrote: post #31

heedspin wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of basic income, what if "basic needs" were all free: Food, shelter, healthcare, and recreation. Money would only be free for people who work. Money gives the freedom to do consume goods that are not free. Sigh. And now to tear down my own thought. Maybe "free basic needs" works (psychologically) for everyone reading HN. But I'm afraid it could destroy a percentage of the population. If someone has no fundame…

>If someone has no fundamental drive to work, The research shows this is an extremely tiny portion of the population. The vast majority of people will find some kind of productive enterprise. It seems paradoxical but giving homeless people free housing with no strings attached tends to end with them getting a job and rejoining society. They almost never just lay around all day doing nothing. It's one of the last grea…

What coincidental timing! I was just listining to Johann Hari's "Everything we know about addiction is wrong" TED talk[0].

His central premise is that the drug policies of the last 100 years have marginalized and disconnected addict populations. His proposal is that connection is the opposite of addiction.

Interesting to hear temporally adjacent to the idea you express -- providing the means for marginalized populations to rejoin society should be priority #1.

[0] http://www.ted.com/talks/johann_hari_everything_you_think_yo...

Re: Impulsive Rich Kid, Impulsive Poor Kid

#34

Post by bravo_alpha » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 7:13 PM UTC

hristov wrote: post #7

This is interesting. I want to try CBT myself. I am not prone to violence (thank god) but I do have some bad habits I want to get rid of, such as procrastination.

I started seeing a CBT therapist this year to be more productive at work (I was also a big procrastinator). It was very effective

Re: Impulsive Rich Kid, Impulsive Poor Kid

#35

Post by eru » Mon, Jul 13, 2015, 9:40 AM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #23

eru wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about basic income and abolishing any minimum wage? (And other barriers to low income employment.)

Basic income creates a de facto minimum wage by setting a wage for a complete lack of labor. I'd think any other minimum wage would be redundant.

A welfare system that abruptly stops paying out when you've got a job sets a de facto minimum wage.

A basic income doesn't prevent you from working for a small amount of money. (And people might even elect to do that, if the job has other good sides.)