StackOverflow modding itself out of existence • Hacker News Board

Re: StackOverflow modding itself out of existence

#41

Post by detaro » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 3:59 PM UTC

cheald wrote: post #28

detaro wrote: post #2

Outside of "how do I do X in JQuery again?", most times google directs me to StackOverflow it is to a question that got closed for some reason or other. I just can assume there are people for which it works better that way, but for me StackOverflow is useless in most cases where I'd hope it could help me. (EDIT: to add, the case mentioned by jrcii of "question is closed, but has a useful answer" also happens)

I hear this regularly, and I'm really curious what kinds of things you're searching. I practically never experience this.

Yes, it seems like there is a big split in what people expect AND get from SO. I'll try to remember next time I come across such a case to save the link to have examples ready when it comes up again, but I guess I just search more for non-specific questions? Or maybe remember them more, because they take more time and result in more material read than specific ones with one right solution that I quickly find and move on?

Re: StackOverflow modding itself out of existence

#42

Post by ExpiredLink » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 4:00 PM UTC

It's very difficult to maintain a site like SO after it has become successful. HN has the same problem. Basically you need to keep out troublemakers and boring repeaters and but at the same time you want to preserve broad and lively discussions.

Re: StackOverflow modding itself out of existence

#43

Post by JamesBarney » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 4:01 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #11

IMO, one thing that'd help would be requiring more close/delete votes for questions with lots of upvotes (and lots of heavily upvoted answers) like this one had. That said, the question - "Of course the Unsafe class is undocumented, but how can I use it in a real world scenario" - is pretty much the definition of "too broad". That said, I voted to undelete and reopen, which appears to have succeeded.

The problem is there is an incredible amount of overlap between "too broad" and "extremely useful to large number of people".

Re: StackOverflow modding itself out of existence

#44

Post by scrollaway » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 4:04 PM UTC

jrcii wrote: post #30

detaro wrote: post #2

Outside of "how do I do X in JQuery again?", most times google directs me to StackOverflow it is to a question that got closed for some reason or other. I just can assume there are people for which it works better that way, but for me StackOverflow is useless in most cases where I'd hope it could help me. (EDIT: to add, the case mentioned by jrcii of "question is closed, but has a useful answer" also happens)

When Google lands me there, about 80-90% of the time a SO post contains the answer I was looking for, it has tons of votes, yet is closed as being off-topic or too broad. Useful yet puzzling.

As a mere reader and non-user of SO, does it matter if the question was closed? The answer's still there, googlable, and it still gets updated regularly, no?

Re: StackOverflow modding itself out of existence

#45

Post by beenpoor » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 4:05 PM UTC

My experience w/ SO has been mixed. Some of the moderators act like quality police and shut down genuine, but potentially basic questions. Yes, amazingly some of the answers are so deep! So mixed opinion for me.

Re: StackOverflow modding itself out of existence

#46

Post by rsync » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 4:05 PM UTC

lnanek2 wrote: post #36

elorant wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, as a C# developer I find tons of useful information there especially in advanced issues. And the discussion is also useful because they present solutions from different angles. Perhaps SO is better suited for those on the Desktop frontier rather than mobile or web development.

The moderators feel any question that can have discussion should be closed. They just want one right answer, anything with multiple is bad by their definitions. So if you are getting discussion, you are actually just experiencing the common case of getting your needs addressed before the terrible moderation kicks in and closes good content.

That's surprising and disappointing - a lot of my value derived from these postings is from the discussions and the alternate answers / differing viewpoints.

Also confusing from the point of view of the site operators - aren't they missing a lot of site interaction and pageviews and additional free content, etc. ?

Re: StackOverflow modding itself out of existence

#47

Post by jonahx » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 4:06 PM UTC

fao_ wrote: post #20

ceejayoz wrote: post #11

IMO, one thing that'd help would be requiring more close/delete votes for questions with lots of upvotes (and lots of heavily upvoted answers) like this one had. That said, the question - "Of course the Unsafe class is undocumented, but how can I use it in a real world scenario" - is pretty much the definition of "too broad". That said, I voted to undelete and reopen, which appears to have succeeded.

> is pretty much the definition of "too broad". The rules should be bend when it is appropriate. I'd argue that this is one of those cases.

This is the crux of the problem. You have a mod culture of mechanistic law enforcement and an apparent passion for punishing technical rule breaking.

The true rule should be: Is this question useful to people? Will other experts be able to provide useful back?

The rule most in need of context-sensitive, question-specific interpretation is the closing of opinion based questions. The number of useful, highly-upvoted questions closed for this reason is the evidence that something needs to change.

Re: StackOverflow modding itself out of existence

#48

Post by christianmann » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 4:08 PM UTC

scrollaway wrote: post #44

jrcii wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Google lands me there, about 80-90% of the time a SO post contains the answer I was looking for, it has tons of votes, yet is closed as being off-topic or too broad. Useful yet puzzling.

As a mere reader and non-user of SO, does it matter if the question was closed? The answer's still there, googlable, and it still gets updated regularly, no?

It suggests that this is not the ideal sort of question for the site, and that any future attempts at similar questions may be met with greater resistance.

Additionally, if the relevant information ever changes, no new answers can be submitted.

Re: StackOverflow modding itself out of existence

#49

Post by joe_the_user » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 4:08 PM UTC

detaro wrote: post #2

Outside of "how do I do X in JQuery again?", most times google directs me to StackOverflow it is to a question that got closed for some reason or other. I just can assume there are people for which it works better that way, but for me StackOverflow is useless in most cases where I'd hope it could help me. (EDIT: to add, the case mentioned by jrcii of "question is closed, but has a useful answer" also happens)

I usually get closed questions but the answers are often useful.

I don't see why "closed" as such is problem. I could interpret it as "someone asked this question and it's been answer, we're moving on".

Sometimes I find an answer on a random web forum - if the forum still permits answers, there will 20 or 100 pages to look through and the usually the only good things will be right after the question.

The web at scale is just messy and cruel.

Re: StackOverflow modding itself out of existence

#50

Post by DanBC » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 4:10 PM UTC

scrollaway wrote: post #44

jrcii wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Google lands me there, about 80-90% of the time a SO post contains the answer I was looking for, it has tons of votes, yet is closed as being off-topic or too broad. Useful yet puzzling.

As a mere reader and non-user of SO, does it matter if the question was closed? The answer's still there, googlable, and it still gets updated regularly, no?

SO incentivises some stuff. You ask a question and you get points if other people upvote your question. You answer a question and you get points if someone upvotes your answer.

You can't vote on closed questions or answers to closed questions.

A question can't just be closed. There needs to be a reason to close it. "This question is a duplicate of this other question" is frequently used. Often the questions are similar but different enough to need a new question. You can't ask a broad question to capture all the variation - that'll get closed as too broad. You can't focus in on your exact problem -that'll get closed as too narrow. The gap in the middle is full of dupes. It's pretty demoralising to have people picking over your question and closing it for (seemingly bogus) reasons or asking for pointless clarification.