Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief • Hacker News Board

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#761

Post by chiph » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 12:49 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #681

bsder wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe she deserved to be fired, maybe she was a terrible officer. Let the company make that decision. I dont like tho mob rule aspect to her stepping down. Her job was to preside over that mob. And apparently to monetize it. Pissing off that mob means she failed at her job . In addition, not understanding that you are firing a key employee shows a dramatic level of ignorance. Reddit has so few employees that even a…

That's all good -fine. If she did wrong, let the company deal with it. They hired her. But here she's been left out to dry. Totally different from Toyota where an executive smuggled prescription drugs into Japan[1] and the company stood by her --she stepped down once she understood the implications of her transgression in the eyes of Japanese law. But this is not the company firing her --it's the internet firing her.…

The Reddit users are their customers. If a board has a CEO that is getting a lot of the firms customers upset (in revolt), then the board has to step in to preserve the company. Remember, they had Digg as an example of what can happen when highly mobile customers leave.

So far as an example from the automotive industry, look at Rick Wagoner from General Motors. He lost the firm $82 billion and 90% of its market capitalization while he was CEO. And the board did nothing to correct this. With their capital gone, loss of confidence by the market, they were forced into bankruptcy.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#762

Post by archagon » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 12:54 PM UTC

mcintyre1994 wrote: post #474

> “The attacks were worse on Ellen because she is a woman,” @sama, how do you explain this claim without ignoring the community's enormous support for Victoria Taylor?

Victoria rarely expressed any of her own opinions, especially controversial ones. She was a facilitator for interviews.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#763

Post by Laforet » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 1:07 PM UTC

Eupolemos wrote: post #709

ketralnis wrote: post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd rather have appalling speech than censored speech If we were talking about what's legal to publish in your own newspaper, I agree. If we're talking about what's appropriate to force others to view by brigading with a small number of people to take over a website to use it as its own platform to harass its CEO, I disagree.

I absolutely agree with you. Free Speech is not a thing on private boards or sites on the internet. Moderation is a good thing if you want a healthy online environment and conversation. That said, I think the moderation Pao symbolised on Reddit as a whole was a very wrong move. The Community certainly did. All the subreddits are individually moderated and the subreddits are opt-in; there's very little need for an ove…

>That said, I think the moderation Pao symbolised on Reddit as a whole was a very wrong move. The Community certainly did. All the subreddits are individually moderated and the subreddits are opt-in; there's very little need for an overarching moderation of Reddit major.

They stepped in because moderators of a banned sub was found to encourage and even directly participate in harassment of other people. And they only caved in after a. incessant complaints from the public and b. some personal threats against imgur employees who took down some images the abusers uploaded.

More info: https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/39bzdf/why_wa...

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#764

Post by chippy » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 1:11 PM UTC

noir_lord wrote: post #28

This entire debacle and the 'communities' (the small vocal part that acted horribly) response pretty much hammered the last nail into the coffin for me when it comes to reddit. With the exception of a few niche subreddits and the (few) incredibly moderated major subreddit's the whole place has become a negative pit with horses beaten so badly to death Findus put them in their lasagna. Twitter often feels the same way…

Nice comment, in the last couple of days I also have warmed again to Facebook.

It's safe - I know all the people we can still have arguments but they are well behaved ones.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#765

Post by Jochim » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 1:13 PM UTC

brazzledazzle wrote: post #585

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you live by the public opinion, you die by the public opinion.

That's the unfortunate reality of being a leader. It would be nice if it weren't so but the world is very far from nice.

Consequences for your actions are something only non-leaders should have to deal with...

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#766

Post by lewisl9029 » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 1:30 PM UTC

dmfdmf wrote: post #520

WalterBright wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather have appalling speech than censored speech. The idea is to not confuse supporting a person's free speech with endorsing his views. Also, reddit is a private company and so is not obliged to provide a platform for anyone's free speech, that also is a facet of freedom.

At last, a voice of reason in hundreds of pointless comments. Free speech is a principle and people should be free to say whatever they want no matter how disgusting or distasteful to the majority or mainstream. This is the ideal of a free society and people who can't make the distinction between supporting the principle and yet rejecting the advocates of idiocy are implicitly advocating some form of government censo…

Sure, but people should also be free to refuse to listen to things they find distasteful, and to refuse access to people who post things they find distasteful on platforms they operate.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#767

Post by nathanvanfleet » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 1:30 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #298

Patrick_Devine wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an occasional user of reddit, this whole ordeal has confirmed the reason why I prefer not to hang out in its forums. I have no idea whether Ellen was a capable CEO, but the vitriol which I kept seeing peripherally (through other news articles and here on HN) was absolutely appalling.

I'd rather have appalling speech than censored speech. The idea is to not confuse supporting a person's free speech with endorsing his views. Also, reddit is a private company and so is not obliged to provide a platform for anyone's free speech, that also is a facet of freedom.

Free speech is between you and the government. If a company that runs a forum says it bans people for abusive comments there's nothing to do with free speech. We see with Reddit that the ugliest users are the ones that are the loudest and drown out everyone else.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#768

Post by Zuider » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 1:42 PM UTC

seanflyon wrote: post #482

dimino wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely and utterly disagree with this opinion, and furthermore find it dangerous for what it suggests - specifically, the idea that a large group of anonymous people can do anything but fall prey to their collective impulse. I would argue that decisions of large bodies of anonymous people are historically and demonstrably inaccurate, misleading, nearsighted, and wholly terrible for not only the decision they're…

Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others. We have decided that no one is more trustworthy to pick our leaders than large bodies of anonymous people.

Democracy works not because it provides a means of putting people into power, but because it provides a bloodless means of removing them.

In the past, factions went to war in order to take absolute power. When they achieved it they would destroy all rivals and enforce strict conformity. They would try to avoid the necessity of constant fighting to hold on to their position by employing various means to cement their legitimacy in the minds of the ruled. One of these was the idea of an aristocracy which had an inherent right to rule. Another was harnessing religion to declare that the rulers held power by divine right, making rebellion a sin. Regime change would only come about through violence.

In a democracy the competing factions can bide their time in the anticipation that they can get into power again. Because of that, they do not feel compelled to use violence to seize power, and by the same token, violence does not have to be used to suppress them.

An interesting side effect of democracy was the relaxation of the need for absolute conformity. This facilitated social mobility, commerce and the flourishing of literature and scientific exploration, all of which would have been seen as subversive and dangerous to the status quo in the older way of doing things, and consequently, rigorously suppressed.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#769

Post by raz32dust » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 1:43 PM UTC

dmfdmf wrote: post #520

WalterBright wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather have appalling speech than censored speech. The idea is to not confuse supporting a person's free speech with endorsing his views. Also, reddit is a private company and so is not obliged to provide a platform for anyone's free speech, that also is a facet of freedom.

At last, a voice of reason in hundreds of pointless comments. Free speech is a principle and people should be free to say whatever they want no matter how disgusting or distasteful to the majority or mainstream. This is the ideal of a free society and people who can't make the distinction between supporting the principle and yet rejecting the advocates of idiocy are implicitly advocating some form of government censo…

This is very idealistic, though. A society works on give and take. Courtesy keeps the society stable. There ought to be some negative consequences for billowing hatred.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#770

Post by keedot » Sat, Jul 11, 2015, 1:46 PM UTC

nathanvanfleet wrote: post #767

WalterBright wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather have appalling speech than censored speech. The idea is to not confuse supporting a person's free speech with endorsing his views. Also, reddit is a private company and so is not obliged to provide a platform for anyone's free speech, that also is a facet of freedom.

Free speech is between you and the government. If a company that runs a forum says it bans people for abusive comments there's nothing to do with free speech. We see with Reddit that the ugliest users are the ones that are the loudest and drown out everyone else.

You're correct, it's an ignorant argument, and I see it posted all over the place. I wish America had a better education system, because it drowns out the real conversations that should be happening around free speech.

You have the right to say whatever you want, you do not have the right to say it in my home. I'm curious as to whether or not these individuals understand this, or are just another level of troll trying to stir the pot.