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Things to Know When Making a Web Application in 2015

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Re: Things to Know When Making a Web Application in 2015

#151

Post by jalfresi »

baddox wrote: post #87
joepie91_ wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully agree with this. SPAs are for web apps , not web sites . For websites, you should always use progressive enhancement - there is no reason why you couldn't obtain the same performance gains by progressively enhancing your site with reload-less navigation. That's what AJAX and the HTML5 History API are for. Especially don't forget that no, not all your clients support JS. And there's no reason why they should n…

> Especially don't forget that no, not all your clients support JS. And there's no reason why they should need to, for a website. Sure there is, if you care about interactivity, responsiveness, and general user experience. The fact that not all potential clients support JS is probably irrelevant, since that number is probably incredibly small. You might as well say that not all potential clients have access to the In…

"if you care about interactivity, responsiveness, and general user experience"

A simple web page (no-js) in a browser covers these three things to a highly acceptable standard. It's when you start to add the other junk that these three become compromised.

For example:

Interactivity: Hyperlinks work great from HTML 1.0 onwards

Responsiveness: Without additional items like JavaScript or even CSS, web pages are incredibly responsive.

General User Experience: The basic web page user experience is EXCELLENT for web pages because it is incredibly basic. Even date pickers can consist of 3 select drop downs (or even a text box; there are plenty of human-date-to-ISO-3306 convertors out there)

Re: Things to Know When Making a Web Application in 2015

#152

Post by jdscriven »

jalfresi wrote: post #151
baddox wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Especially don't forget that no, not all your clients support JS. And there's no reason why they should need to, for a website. Sure there is, if you care about interactivity, responsiveness, and general user experience. The fact that not all potential clients support JS is probably irrelevant, since that number is probably incredibly small. You might as well say that not all potential clients have access to the In…

"if you care about interactivity, responsiveness, and general user experience" A simple web page (no-js) in a browser covers these three things to a highly acceptable standard. It's when you start to add the other junk that these three become compromised. For example: Interactivity: Hyperlinks work great from HTML 1.0 onwards Responsiveness: Without additional items like JavaScript or even CSS, web pages are incredib…

What is ISO-3306?

Re: Things to Know When Making a Web Application in 2015

#153

Post by lewisl9029 »

balls187 wrote: post #2

> If you can get away with it, outsource identity management to Facebook / GitHub / Twitter / etc. and just use an OAuth flow. OAuth isn't identity management, it's for authorization. Each of those platforms does provide it's own identity management, but that isn't OAuth.

The OAuth based OpenID Connect is for identity management.

http://openid.net/connect/

Personally, I still prefer Persona's privacy-oriented approach to id management, but since Mozilla stopped pushing it, development has slowed quite a bit and widespread adoption will probably never happen.

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/persona/

Re: Things to Know When Making a Web Application in 2015

#154

Post by lewisl9029 »

quadrature wrote: post #58

This is a bit of a pet peeve of mine, but that banner image is 10 megabytes, it can be compressed down to 2mb without any perceptible loss of quality. Heck it could probably be shrunk further if you can accept a bit more loss because most of the image is blurry and noisy anyway. heres a compressed version: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bw606t7znouxpj1/photo-141847963101...

Good catch.

That is ironic on so many levels.

I mean there is even a section on "UX: Bandwidth"...

Maybe the author should brush up on image compression best practices and consider adding a subsection on images and other media.

EDIT: Realized my previous wording was probably a bit too harsh considering the author is still relatively new to web development.

Re: Things to Know When Making a Web Application in 2015

#155

Post by shiggerino »

jdscriven wrote: post #152
jalfresi wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"if you care about interactivity, responsiveness, and general user experience" A simple web page (no-js) in a browser covers these three things to a highly acceptable standard. It's when you start to add the other junk that these three become compromised. For example: Interactivity: Hyperlinks work great from HTML 1.0 onwards Responsiveness: Without additional items like JavaScript or even CSS, web pages are incredib…

What is ISO-3306?

He probably meant ISO 8601

Re: Things to Know When Making a Web Application in 2015

#157

Post by Yokohiii »

wwweston wrote: post #131
baddox wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your use of the term 'probably' suggests to me that you have not run any actual metrics. What I really meant is that if you have a significant non-JS-supporting visitor base, you almost certainly already know it. There are a huge class of web apps that simply do not have to worry about it. If you know who your customers/visitors are then you should already know how important it is to support non-JS browsers. > Requ…

> JavaScript is an integral part of the platform that is the web, just like HTML and CSS I always think it's interesting when people bring CSS into this, because it's actually a very strong counter to the general argument. By design a user agent is well within its rights to completely ignore any stylesheets attached to a page, and the idea was always that this should be completely OK, partly because you have no idea…

You are correct all the way.

The problem is that arguments from both sides are often generalized and it's not necessarily wrong. If you have a wide audience e-commerce enterprise you should probably keep JS use as limited as possible. If you build tools for programmers or highly dynamic projects, JS everywhere is probably fine.

Re: Things to Know When Making a Web Application in 2015

#158

Post by bhaak »

jon-wood wrote: post #142
joepie91_ wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure there is, if you care about interactivity, responsiveness, and general user experience. And all of these can be provided just fine using progressive enhancement. This is _not_ an argument for SPAs. > The fact that not all potential clients support JS is probably irrelevant, since that number is probably incredibly small. Your use of the term 'probably' suggests to me that you have not run any actual metrics. H…

Come on, really? Some of those are legit (although manageable if you do things right), but how many web Apps truly need to worry about accommodating terminal based browser users ? Unless Stallman is in your target market that's probably something you don't need to consider for any longer than fifteen seconds.

There is a simple argument for making sure that a web site looks good in a terminal based browser (note: web site, not web app).

This is how Google sees your web site.

Sure, there are lots of meta data enhancements and Google is probably much smarter than it was 10 years in extracting data from your js gobbled up web page (as we know, they even try to interpret javascript to some extent).

But it still boils down to this: The easier you make it for Google to get at the text of your web site, the better for your page rank.

Re: Things to Know When Making a Web Application in 2015

#159

Post by lewisl9029 »

dimxasnewfrozen wrote: post #55
HOLYCOWBATMAN wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldnt take any advice on web dev from someone if his simple blog looks like this http://i.imgur.com/uHi0g0Z.png brb compiling linux to JS to render my blog post.

The footer clearly says "Proudly published with Ghost." It's not his own doing.

That begs the question... why is Ghost loading all this?

I had the impression that it was supposed to be a simple, bloat-free blogging platform.

Re: Things to Know When Making a Web Application in 2015

#160

Post by lewisl9029 »

sambeau wrote: post #156

I was surprised at the lack of mention of SVG. The biggest change to my working habits (apart for working in a SPA) is that every non-photographic image I use is now SVG.

Don't be surprised. See this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9866461
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